I can't get over this way of thinking

I absolutely abhor and despise my parents for giving me life and thrusting me into this world WITHOUT MY PERMISSION. This isn’t a little *****y rant about how difficult my privileged life but rather a rant about humanity in general and how ridiculously evil (I believe) having children is.

What bothers me about the whole ordeal is the simple FACT that absolute traumatizing pain that can last for your entire life exists and can happen to literally anybody, regardless of age, sex, and so forth.

Before reading this post, I want you to imagine that you are locked up in a dark room with a sociopathic sadist that has a very large knife. This is going to be your existence for the rest of your life. This sociopath won’t kill you but rather he’ll torture you in the most brutal, inhumane way imaginable for 60 years. Imagine your screams and shouts, imagine your mindset when you realize that this is going to literally be the rest of your existence. 21900 days of pure physical pain and anguish. 525600 hours of him torturing you with electricity, knives, bee stings, and so forth. Imagine the darkness, the fear, the loneliness, the despair, and the sheer fear.

I can bet my soul that if any individual, especially one who had previously loved and enjoyed their life and were anti-suicide, were to end up in the above scenario, after several hours they would be overcome with sheer euphoria at the thought of killing themselves and ending the pain. Suicide would become a VERY desirable escape. I don’t know how many of you have undergone excruciating amounts of physical pain but I can’t, for the life of me, imagine anything worse.

Now, since we’ve deduced that there are POSSIBLE (though unlikely) circumstances where any human life can become a mess of excruciating misery and physical pain to the point where the individual begins to despise their existence, is having kids really the right thing to do?

This is why I feel like I can never truly “love” my parents. Because when you REALLY begin to look at things objectively, I mean when you really look at what’s going on from this perspective, you begin to realize that your life is a gamble. Your parents rolled the dice without your permission.

My life is good right now, don’t get me wrong- I have a lot of friends, live in a nice house, have plenty of food on my plate, attend a great university, and so forth but there are a million terrible things that could technically happen to me at any given time that can make me despise existence and make me undergo vast amounts of pain. And although they are rare, they still happen. That’s what matters. And people don’t really pay attention to it because it’s so rare but what fascinates me is that it does happen to SOMEONE. And that someone feels feelings as intensely as you do. They perceive pain as intensely as you do. Just imagine the sheer fear that you would feel if you are going to be brutally tortured for 60 years! I’ve had nightmares about this stuff. Just sit down and think about it for a minute or two. Would you wish this on ANYONE? Wouldn’t you do absolutely everything you can to prevent it?

I understand that this is a difficult view to take in. Parents don’t want to be told that they are to blame for their children’s misfortunes and child birth is perhaps the most natural and dominant instinct we have. Man, it’s eating me up inside.

I was sitting next to my mother recently and she told me how much she loved me. Then I thought about what my life would be like had I been kidnapped at a young age and tortured for the rest of my life by a sociopath brute. And then I realized that this was technically possible. And then I realized my mom, technically speaking, took that risk. It made me feel really uneasy.

Can anyone relate? I feel soooo alone in this. I feel like I am the only person in the world with a view like this.

Yep, you’re the only one.

Yeah, you’re over thinking this.

PS. You forgot the other risk your mother took; you could have become bthe psychopath torturing innocent university students.

I’ve asked this question to several people and it seems that no one cares to elaborate their responses. Kind of silly how this board is called “great debates” and yet half the responses aren’t even debates but one sentence ‘smart-ass’ responses with absolutely no rationality to them. Care to explain why I’m over thinking?

How would they ask your permission?

But really, the thrusting your parents were concerned with at the time did not involve you.

Awww clever, you found a sexual innuendo. I wish I was cool and attractive as you. The ladies must really think you’re clever and fancy, eh?

No one is elaborating perhaps because your complaint is incomprehensible. Having children is evil? Fine, I guess. You’re not going to get a lot of converts, but you’re free to abstain from parenthood yourself. Lots of people are doing it, but I don’t think for the same reason as you (failure to obtain informed consent of your future child).

Since when was it objective to imagine the very extreme and claim the whole thing is bunk because of it? For example, a very extreme is that everyone votes for legalizing murder. Is democracy inherently evil? If you can imagine a position to have, somebody might have it, but that doesn’t make it objective just because they insist on it. That principle applies here.

Is it just me, or is this a stealth abortion thread?

I think you nailed it.

Is it possible a child will grow up in complete despair and misery? Yeah, I guess. Is it also possible a child will grow up in absolute joy and bliss? Okay, that too. Is either possibility likely? Not really. On balance you really should not make plan based on remote extremes, especially when they balance out.

:smack:

It doesn’t magically balance out though. If I were to get two groups of people, group A and group B, and treat group A like Gods but torture everyone in group B, I sure as hell wouldn’t be justified. It would be so immoral.

“Evil” is a bizarre word to use here. Perhaps “thoughtless” is what you’re going for? If someone had kids knowing that they were going to be tortured for the rest of their lives, then that person would certainly be evil. But if they had them thinking of only the best outcomes, then their only crime is over-optimism. I think most people are more like the latter than the former.

For most people, life is just a series of ups and downs. The ups generally outweigh the downs…at least the mind perceives it this way. When a person has kids, they are acting on the faithful belief that their kids’ lives will be similar to theirs–more ups than downs. They are indeed gambling. But it’s no different than the gambling we do in all other arenas of life. If we never took any risks, we wouldn’t be able to do anything.

I think suicide is much more relevant to the topic than abortion is. IMHO, suicide can be a reasonable response to life’s gambles, since none of us asked to play this wretched game in the first place.

If OP is sincere you do need therapy. Your take on relative balance of rights and obligations re this issue is cuckoo for cocoa puffs. Seriously it’s gibbering nonsense. That you can’t see it’s insane points to some sort of serious mental dysfunction.

If OP is insincere ham handed abortion thread we’re seen better. Much better.

Now, there is no reason he can’t do both.

BREAKING NEWS:… The Pity Train has just derailed at the intersection of Suck It Up & Move On, and crashed into We All Have Problems, before coming to a complete stop at Get the Hell Over It. Any complaints about how we operate, can be forwarded to 1-800-waa-aaah with Dr. Sniffle Reporting LIVE from Quit your Bitchin’. Suck it up princess! Life doesn’t revolve around you.

Whenever I feel sorry for myself I read something like this and laugh and I realise I have a DARN GOOD LIFE. :slight_smile:

There’s no sexual innuendo.
It’s a thread about human reproduction.
Sex is how that happens.

No need to get all ad hominem with me over your parents’ fucking.
Your mom probably liked as much as your dad did. Maybe more. That’s how it works.
That’s how the species is kept alive- people fuck without regard to the consequences.

You’re an accident, OP.
Edit- based on thread contents, probably a virgin too.

I can see your perspective here; I’ve felt the same way at times. But then I stopped being a teenager and it went away (mostly).

What they got: Under the best of circumstances, my conception consisted of a lovely night of dinner and dancing, followed by an hour or so of mattress gymnastics, followed by a few seconds of relative bliss, followed by a certain amount of cleaning up and a cigarette. I have no idea if that’s what my parents actually did, of course… no way do I want those kinds of details! But, in general, fucking is about that good and no better, but often times worse. Sex is like pizza; even bad pizza is still pretty good. But even under the best possible circumstances, the pleasure of any given fuck is a brief, limited, pleasure.

What I got: 60 years of pain, suffering, humiliation, and grief, followed by the horrors of old age as my body falls apart, followed by death and presumably oblivion. Granted, this is punctuated with periods of joy and even bliss; after all, I do get to have sex myself, although I’ve always been careful that it doesn’t end up in creating a new life.

So on a strictly mathematical level, A&B (my parents) bought X moments of pleasure by selling C (my life) into misery and torture, with the occasional bit of relief, for many, many times X moments of a life (60+ years). The return on investment here isn’t good, especially from my perspective!

But, like I said… I got over it. Mostly. I mean, what’s the alternative?

Generally a debate refers to a discussion as to whether some position or action should be taken or not taken. What exactly is the debate here? That nobody should have children without getting their unborn child’s permission ahead of time? How is that possibly a debate?

This may come off as a flippant answer, but I mean it sincerely.

Get Over It.

The Universe is not fair. Justice is a Human Concept that doesn’t exist in Nature. There is no purpose to the Universe, it merely IS.

You can let that terrify you beyond all measure (as you clearly have), or you can enjoy the time that is given to you and do the best you can with what you have.

I can assure you that not one NanoCog* of thought on your part will change the fundamental nature of the Universe. But it can change how you see the world, how you enjoy life. It can change YOUR world.

You want to minimize your chances of all that bad shit happening? PAY ATTENTION. Know who you are, where you are. Know your surroundings, pay attention to the people in your environment. Make good choices.

Will this stop all bad things from happening? Nope.

But you might just enjoy the good moments you live from day to day rather than wallowing in useless stress, worry and terror.

  • A unit of measurement of thought that I just now invented. Nano-Cog(nitive).