I can't pay my rent. I'm doomed.

[bobkitty]

@lazybratsche

FWIW, I have seen and even donated to crowdfunding appeals that amount to “give me enough money to quit my day job so I can work full time on [project]”. However, those people had already been making some fairly popular (video game/webcomic/art installation/etc) in their spare time. They had ambition with plenty of determination, talent, and skill to back it up, and it was apparent.

So you can be honest and say up front that the funding is really just to pay your living expenses while you make a really cool thingy. Don’t expect many people to pay until you have a more substantial track record however. Otherwise, it’s not very different from handing you money so you can play at your hobbies all day.

This. As an example, here is a link to an amazingly popular recent kickstarter. The artist has been working on his strip online and in print for a couple years, has a decent-sized following, and ended up with over $140,000 past his requested pledge amount of $20,000. The primary differences- 1) anyone who followed him knew about his situation (recently graduated from college, interviewing for various jobs within his field but not successful so far, living off his savings in San Francisco, which is certainly not a low-cost area of the country), so he was very up front that some of the money would go to his living expenses so that he could focus on his project. 2) he had a definite time frame- so many pages minimum per day, time the project would be completed, etc. 3) a tiered reward system that appealed to every level of donor, with actual items outlined. 4) a plan for the future of the project.

You’ve got a great idea, and nice work done, but there’s no sense in your outline of exactly what the overarching plan is, other than “this is my dream, please help me fulfil it,” which isn’t a horrible thing but, well, there are a lot of people out there with a dream they want to fulfil. What you have to do is convince people that yours is worth sharing in, and I’m sorry, but I just don’t see where that happened.

Also, the fact that you already spent money prior to the closing out of the donation period is not a good thing, since in most cases the money reverts if the minimum isn’t met. I hope you’ll be able to reimburse those folks.

I’m sorry you’re in this situation- I do hope that you’ll consider looking into what governmental assistance is available to you, as others have suggested. I had several years of deciding between food and my husband’s medications, and lost everything to a bankruptcy; three years later, I’m in a job that I love, making more than I ever have before, have a paid-off car, nice house, food in the fridge, and everything that I ‘need’ to make life comfortable. It’s completely doable, if you just give the proper channels a chance to work for you.

[shijinn]

why didn’t you try Kickstarter? if you were to meet your crowdfunding target, how many months of rent would that settle? if the project took longer than you anticipate, would your financial situation mire the project? what percentage of your target actually goes towards the project directly? that is, if someone else did it, how much smaller would the funding target have been? would it be the same?

these are just the initial reaction upon reading this thread. hope your situation improves.

[Seanette]

@bobkitty

You’ve got a great idea, and nice work done, but there’s no sense in your outline of exactly what the overarching plan is, other than “this is my dream, please help me fulfil it,” which isn’t a horrible thing but, well, there are a lot of people out there with a dream they want to fulfil. What you have to do is convince people that yours is worth sharing in, and I’m sorry, but I just don’t see where that happened.

What I was seeing was “I am an artiste, therefore much too precious to take on menial labor to pay my living expenses for myself, so gimme money!”

[Skywatcher]

@Shakes

This has got to be the worst plea for money or sympathy ever.

At least I was holding everything in PayPal until needed and, if never needed, returned. Should have stated from the start.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@GuanoLad

You seem to have a fantasy idea of how films are made.

Well, you knew the people you were asking for money from weren’t in the industry, so it really becomes your responsibility to explain it thoroughly, so people feel confident and positive about helping out.

You were asking us, so educate us in the process.

I certainly hope it works out, but you do bear some responsibility for the reactions.

[twickster]

@Fenris

No: the “My furnace is broke and it’s a zillion degrees in my house and I can’t get air conditioning and my baby and wife will die from the heat and I’m totally flat broke and I need money. And by “a zillion degrees” I mean “It’s warm” and by “my babies and wife” I mean “my bunny-wunnies” (by which I mean literally my pet rabbits) and by “flat broke” I mean except for my investments and retirement money and savings and stuff.”* one was far, FAR worse.

But other than that, yeah, this is the worst.

*Note: some details changed for kicks and grins

Don’t dredge up old controversies, esp. just for kicks and grins. It’s jerkish.

No warning issued.

twickster, MPSIMS moderator

[Telemark]

@GuanoLad

Instead of giving it to people who specialise in editing or VFX, I am doing all of that myself. Not because I need to, but because it’s what I love to do.

Then say that in your fundraising. Just like you don’t tip the owner of a business, IMO, you don’t “tip” the artist unless that’s what explicitly is asked for.

You seem to have a fantasy idea of how films are made.

You seem to have a fantasy idea of how money is raised.

It’s not that I don’t think your project isn’t worthy, nor that you shouldn’t be able to raise funds. It’s just that I think in a case like this you need to be extremely up front and honest with the folks you are trying to raise money from. IMO, if you were up-front about exactly what you were using the funds for there are some folks who would be turned off. There would be others who would have no problem contributing funds. Full disclosure would give people the information they need to make an informed decision.

[runningdude]

@Telemark

Yes, but he’s asked for money so he could pay his rent, not so he could make his movie. As someone who looks carefully when contributing money this just smells bad. I don’t donate money to pay people’s rent and I’d be upset if that wasn’t stated clearly up front.

I’m not sure how you would expect an artist to pay his rent and board if not through the money given to him by stranger’s supporting his work.

… IMO it’s a dishonest way to raise funds.

This strikes me as one of the more honest “scams” on the internet. Having turned down a fundraising job once, I know that most money raised for a lot of causes goes to pay the wages of those who are soliciting the money. I would never donate to an anonymous artist over the internet, but him using it to pay ordinary living expenses is so thoroughly predictable that it would be naive to expect otherwise.

[Fear_Itself]

@GuanoLad

Instead of giving it to people who specialise in editing or VFX, I am doing all of that myself. Not because I need to, but because it’s what I love to do. I am making the film precisely so I can create all this cool stuff to see.

You seem to have a fantasy idea of how films are made.

One of us does, that is certain.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@runningdude

I’m not sure how you would expect an artist to pay his rent and board if not through the money given to him by stranger’s supporting his work.

This strikes me as one of the more honest “scams” on the internet. Having turned down a fundraising job once, I know that most money raised for a lot of causes goes to pay the wages of those who are soliciting the money. I would never donate to an anonymous artist over the internet, but him using it to pay ordinary living expenses is so thoroughly predictable that it would be naive to expect otherwise.

That maybe true, but if you look at how he worded his thread on the dope:

@GuanoLad

Hey there

I have permission from the Mods to post this here. I’m looking to crowdfund my first short film via IndieGogo, to get it complete and out and about, and also to keep me alive while I finish it up.

To my naive eye, it seemed the money he wanted was for two purposes: Getting it completed/distributed and to help with the bills. Being naive to the process, but eager to help, I assumed most of the money would go to direct expenses for the first part. However, this thread comes along and it seems all the money was for indirect costs. I have a lot of experience writing grants to fund projects. While that situation is admittedly different, that is where my experience lies and I assumed this would be similar. In my experience, funding is for direct, not indirect costs, unless explicitly stated.

That being said, I have no problem with funding living expenses that way, but my issue is that lack of transparency and the assumption that everyone should know how it goes. Maybe the OP was being naive in not predicting that the folks funding you might have these concerns. It’s a learning experience on both sides. After all, my naive money pays bills as well as more experienced money. I just want to feel good about what I’m donating towards.

[GuanoLad]

@ZipperJJ

However, GuanoLad, the way you went about this is pretty dang tacky. You should have either kept your mouth shut about your rent struggles or gone to the opposite end of the Internet to find solace. Come on, man.

I had no idea anyone would react so negatively. To me it seemed perfectly straightforward. But yes, in retrospect, this whole thread was a disaster.

@bobkitty

You’ve got a great idea, and nice work done, but there’s no sense in your outline of exactly what the overarching plan is, other than “this is my dream, please help me fulfil it,” which isn’t a horrible thing but, well, there are a lot of people out there with a dream they want to fulfil. What you have to do is convince people that yours is worth sharing in, and I’m sorry, but I just don’t see where that happened.

It was an experiment, and I am terrible at selling myself. I definitely don’t have the knack, and I think that’s one of the main reasons it has failed. It’s certainly been spread far and wide, in places it ought to have gotten a decent reaction, but it’s barely caused a ripple. So that I definitely cop to.

@bobkitty

Also, the fact that you already spent money prior to the closing out of the donation period is not a good thing, since in most cases the money reverts if the minimum isn’t met. I hope you’ll be able to reimburse those folks.

That’s why I chose Indiegogo, they have the option to receive the money even if it isn’t fulfilled to its goal. And I will fulfil everybody’s perk, too, as long as I can finish the film.

@shijinn

why didn’t you try Kickstarter?

Because it’s not available for International projects. I’d need a US or UK address. So I chose Indiegogo. But I could also have chosen Pozible or any number of others, they are much of a muchness.

@shijinn

if you were to meet your crowdfunding target, how many months of rent would that settle?

Three months, considering 15-20% of it would be used to fulfil the Perks.

@shijinn

if the project took longer than you anticipate, would your financial situation mire the project?

That’s where I’m at now, so maybe, maybe not. Can’t hurt to try, was my thinking.

@shijinn

what percentage of your target actually goes towards the project directly? that is, if someone else did it, how much smaller would the funding target have been? would it be the same?

No idea. Short films are often done gratis. If it was a full crew of professionals being paid, and they did it in a reasonable timeframe, it could have been a total budget of $20,000 maybe.

@Seanette

What I was seeing was “I am an artiste, therefore much too precious to take on menial labor to pay my living expenses for myself, so gimme money!”

Crikey! Why on earth did you leap to that conclusion?

@Telemark

Full disclosure would give people the information they need to make an informed decision.

That’s something that never even occurred to me. It doesn’t seem to be that common in other crowdfunding campaigns. Some are upfront, some aren’t. I didn’t think I was hiding anything, even if I wasn’t explicit about the details.
Clearly this was a disastrous idea. I shouldn’t have brought it up, or shouldn’t have tried to do it in the first place, I should’ve told everybody everything, or nobody anything.

But most importantly, clearly I should have gotten a proper job and done something else with my life.

Thanks for everybody’s input. Well, some of you, anyway.

[GuanoLad]

@shijinn

what percentage of your target actually goes towards the project directly? that is, if someone else did it, how much smaller would the funding target have been? would it be the same?

I think I misunderstood this question.

A professional person doing all the work that needs doing now, which is the sound effects, DVD making, and posters designed, etc, would probably be around $5-8k. All amateurs might be less than I’m paying myself, maybe $3000. But I never expected to reach my goal, as the odds are against it. Most crowdfunding campaigns fail, I think it’s 60/40 on Kickstarter. I chose $5k as something reasonable but not excessive, and at worst was hoping to get just half of it.

[Mathematics]

I understand your point of view, GuanoLad.

What are you going to do now? Have you found out about any government assistance programs? Or a place you can stay?

I wish you luck.

[Spud]

@runningdude

This strikes me as one of the more honest “scams” on the internet.

Is that like the nicest “slander”

or the gentlest “assault”

or the friendliest “hate crime”

Or…

[stui_magpie]

Ok, I’m not going to get on board the train, I’m just going to try a couple of practical suggestions which you may or may not have already thought of.

So you’re a Kiwi living in Melbourne?

I’m not sure where you are currently living but I’m sure you realise there’s a price on convenience. You can pay the same rent for a bedroom in a sharehouse in the inner burbs than you would for a 1 bedroom flat in the outer. Maybe you want to think about downsizing your rent bill so you can live off centrelink until you get back in real paid employment. Even if you string things along until the film is finished, then what? It’s not going to make enough money for you to not need paid employment, is it?

Also, as it’s a short movie you’re making have your thought of applying for a grant? http://www.australiacouncil.gov.au/grants

otherwise, what Banquet Bear said. Good luck with it.

[Zebra]

Guanolad,

I’ve been there with the whole, “rent is due and there is no fucking way I can pay it” a few times.

It sucks big time. It is so stressful. I have no useful suggestions other than to seek Government help if available.

But I feel for you and I know things will work out. Somehow.

[Merneith]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

That maybe true, but if you look at how he worded his thread on the dope:

Originally Posted by GuanoLad View Post
Hey there

I have permission from the Mods to post this here. I’m looking to crowdfund my first short film via IndieGogo, to get it complete and out and about, and also to keep me alive while I finish it up.

To my naive eye, it seemed the money he wanted was for two purposes: Getting it completed/distributed and to help with the bills. Being naive to the process, but eager to help, I assumed most of the money would go to direct expenses for the first part. However, this thread comes along and it seems all the money was for indirect costs. I have a lot of experience writing grants to fund projects. While that situation is admittedly different, that is where my experience lies and I assumed this would be similar. In my experience, funding is for direct, not indirect costs, unless explicitly stated.

That being said, I have no problem with funding living expenses that way, but my issue is that lack of transparency and the assumption that everyone should know how it goes. Maybe the OP was being naive in not predicting that the folks funding you might have these concerns. It’s a learning experience on both sides. After all, my naive money pays bills as well as more experienced money. I just want to feel good about what I’m donating towards.

Sheesh, I hadn’t even seen the original thread about this. So he told people upfront that he was raising the money in part to pay for his living expenses - and somehow, now it’s a “scam” because he’s using the money, in part, to pay for his living expenses? I would not use such a charitable word as ‘naivete’ to describe the disappointment on the part of the donors who ignored that part of his discription.

Even if GuanoLad set up a special escrow fund with all the money from the crowdfunding carefully set aside for special donor-approved expenses - the movie isn’t going to get made if GuanoLad is homeless and has no where to use his equipment. The movie doesn’t get made if GuanoLad has to stop working on it and get a full time job. So how does that help the donors, any? Paying the rent, and the electric bill, and, yes, the food and water bills, are all non-optional prerequisite for finishing the movie.

The movie doesn’t get made without a place in which to work on it and a man to do the work. Paying for that is a legitimate business expense. He told you in his first post that the money would be used in part to pay expenses.

The problem here is not ‘naivete’ on the part of the filmmaker.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Merneith

Sheesh, I hadn’t even seen the original thread about this. So he told people upfront that he was raising the money in part to pay for his living expenses - and somehow, now it’s a “scam” because he’s using the money, in

I guess you didn’t see my post #3 of this thread when I mentioned it.
I think rather than being angry at him or saying the people who donated are foolish for not getting it, we can learn a little something here from each other. How to fund raise so that people outside your world understand it and some insight into how starving artist productions get supported.

It’s not stupidity or foolishness on either part, just inexperience.

[Dangerosa]

@runningdude

I’m not sure how you would expect an artist to pay his rent and board if not through the money given to him by stranger’s supporting his work.

I think this is sarcastic, but I know a lot of artists - writers, musicians, fine artists and yes, film makers.

1. They hold day jobs. Often those day jobs are teaching their art.

2. They used to hold day jobs, then saved enough money to support themselves while they pursued their art. When the money runs out, they get day jobs.

3. They used to hold day jobs, and are pursuing art in their retirement

4. They married well and their spouse supports them (or found some other sort of support system - a few aren’t married - one goes pretty much from couch to couch).

5. They’ve “sold out” and make plates that can be sold at Ren Faires and craft shows, pursuing their art in their spare time, and for their job, make a few thousand of the same coffee mug. A musician friend of mine makes his living as a sound guy.

6. They’ve established themselves well enough to make a living through their art.

7. RARELY, they work off grants.

I don’t think its realistic to expect grant money - and I think the idea of crowdsourcing is very cool, but I don’t expect its realistic without some combination of a business plan, a track record, or a really sellable idea.

[Telemark]

@runningdude

I’m not sure how you would expect an artist to pay his rent and board if not through the money given to him by stranger’s supporting his work.

By working at something that pays a salary and doing his art on the side. That’s my expectation.

Looking at the actual request it’s clear that he said he would use it to pay some of his expenses so he was more honest and up front about it than I remembered. It’s clear to anyone donating funds that a portion of it would go to things like rent. But it’s the last item mentioned and now it appears that it’s pretty much the only expense that it is intended to cover. I would have assumed that the majority of the money was for film related expenses (cameras, film, processing, publicity, fees, salaries of other people, etc).

If I had donated money I would feel somewhat annoyed that the initial plea was a misrepresentation. He clearly stated that some money would go for living expenses, but now it appears that all of the money was going for that.