If I had donated and then read this thread, I would regret donating. This is pretty shameful, IMO.
I think that this is an understatement. I mean, how are you going to have your own money, even after the film is complete, if you’re terrible at selling?
A good idea, even a great idea, will go nowhere unless you can SELL it…to venture capitalists who will underwrite the project; to marketers, who will know where to advertise the completed project so that it finds an audience; to consumers, who will fork over their hard earned money for it.
The world is full of amateur movie makers and authors and script writers who are filled with ideas but cannot get their idea off the ground because they can’t sell it. If you don’t have the passion and balls it is going to take to sell this film, then your project is, indeed, doomed. (That doesn’t mean that YOU are doomed.) It’s incredibly naive to think that because you came up with a great idea, that all that will be required to make a living on that idea is to complete the project. Completing the film is just the BEGINNING.
That’s why so many creative people hold down full time jobs WHILE they are pursuing their dream. Pick any successful writer, actor, producer, director, and you can bet that they didn’t make a living at it until well after their first big break.
I never read the Crowdfunding thread since I don’t have money to give, but from the quote, GuanoLad said some of it would be used for living expenses. He might have justified the amount because he’s wearing all the hats and would basically be paying himself. I don’t know.
GuanoLad, I don’t know how hard you’ve looked for another job or if you eventually gave that up to focus all your energy on the film, hoping that would be your winning ticket. But a lot of creative people don’t have much business sense. For that reason, maybe you could find somebody who’s good at that sort of thing and would be willing to help with the marketing for a percentage somewhere down the line. We’re not talking Sony Studios here, we’re talking about a couple people who share the same interests getting together to see what they can do with the finished product.
Myself, I would apply for all the financial aid I could get for the now you’re facing, and take any job you can get—even if it means sweeping parking lots at midnight. In the meantime, look for that person who can help you sell your film and work on it when you can. I suspect your concentrated effort on it helped keep depression at bay (but I don’t know) but reality dictates that you kick into survival mode now. IMHO
Personally, I hope posters don’t hold this against you as you proffered a return instead of just asking for a hand-out. (Which may have been your attempt at “business.”) I see you’re a long-timer and enjoy your posts myself. “Hang in there” and I hope you eventually get this project to “fly.”
Why do you have to specify salaries of other people? Suppose he were to hire a visual effects artist at $50 / hour (Salary made up since I have no idea what they actually make). Since he hired somebody you’re ok with that cost. Instead, suppose Guanoland does the same visual effects work himself but pays himself $40 / hour. Why is this a problem? I’m assuming he’s doing the work himself because he has the skill set, and he can do it for less than hiring out which stretches the money further. How is this not an effective use of money he’s raised? Why is it so wrong to pay himself a salary for tasks that he does, yet perfectly ok to pay somebody else to do those exact same tasks?
Because, as I said upthread, you don’t tip the owner of a business. His labor on a film project is commendable, and I sincerely wish GuanoLad great success with it. But I don’t consider his rent to be an expense since it’s HIS project. Other people brought to do tasks are employees - he isn’t. It’s a fundamental difference between an artist and the crew, at least in my view. His reward is downstream when the picture is a hit.
IMO (and I fully admit it may not be standard for crowd-sourced projects) is that if someone is asking for money for a project they aren’t using the money to pay themselves a salary. It’s an avoidable expense - there are no out of pocket costs for him to create the visual effects. I wouldn’t object if he used the money to buy a software package to do the job, but not to pay his salary which is essentially to pay his rent.
If he had asked for money this way: “Please donate money so I can pay my rent while I finish the project” then everyone would be clear on what was happening and if that worked to raise money then everyone would be happy. The way it was phrased makes it seem counter to generally accepted norms. Perhaps I’m mistaken on those norms but paying yourself a salary just doesn’t seem kosher if that’s the main purpose of the fundraising.
I’ve been a filmmaker since I was 15. I’m 51. In fact, those who are throwing stones because this process is not identical to the funding, production and distribution of “Independence Day” or “American Pie IV” have no real clue as to the tightrope that every filmmaker walks when NOT involved in a $ 25-400 Million project.
This is a creative technician who has skill sets that far outstrip that of most people I’ve ever been on a crew with. And I’ve worked on a lot of movies, t.v. shows, commercials and music videos and whatnots. His depth of knowledge and previously produced works- which are linked by him- should have kept the snark at bay. Dismaying that they have not.
People make films in different ways and for different reasons. If you love nothing but the bigtime commercial pap, go pay your $ 16.00 per ticket + popcorn and enjoy- oblivious to the immense world of alternative and independent filmmaking.
I didn’t get funding for my documentary. I got my parents to fund it. In 1984 dollars it cost me $ 4,500 to buy the 16mm raw stock, shoot, process and get work prints made for all footage. I then had to wade through many hours of footage. I chose to rent an edit machine- insanely pricey next to the free machines at school. Why? Because the boxes of dailies in total weighed over 80 pounds and I had no way to transport them back and forth. The time wasted in organizing anew every time I got a few hours in an edit bay would have been a waste. Instead, I asked for additional funds to rent a film edit machine called a flatbet Moviola. I edited at home. Finished my film on time, to answer print. My entire crew was myself, a student colleague to do sound and my ex-girlfriend who did slate and production notes. ( Don’t…ask someone whose broken your heart to work on your project. :dubious: ).
That was then. Funding from parents. No Internet existed, no crowdsourcing. They saw it as an investment in my future. Since I’m still at it, I guess it was a good investment.
GuanoLad is deep into a project. He has a proven track record IN HIS FIELD of expertise. People lose their jobs. People get fucked out of housing. It is breathtakingly snarky to me for anyone not intimately familiar with the process of making a film to determine that he’s being sneaky or a thief or a hustler. I had to edit at home. Fortunately, I worked it out. He has to HAVE a home in which to do the Post Production work on his film.
Anyone remember the adorable short animated film that won the Oscar last year? It’s called Paperman, by John Kahrs. If this fellow hadn’t access to time and space to do the work necessary to produce this touching little gem, we’d all have lost a bit of something- the something that makes us go back to the movies through our whole lives. We wouldn’t have KNOWN we lost it, but we would have lost the experience of seeing his short film.
Until you’ve tried to make a personal project that is at this level of complexity- and have successfully completed and screened it in public- I’m not sure one has a leg to stand on.
Missed the Edit window.
ETA: I don’t see the specific wording as a hustle at all. A home = completion of the project. Simple.
Have you tried looking for freelance work at places like eLance? With your talent, it shouldn’t be difficult to find a gig or two. Heck, web designing, alone, should do the trick. Maybe try searching for web design and editing jobs on CraigsList and LinkedIn, too.
There’s always eBay and a good old fashioned yard sale if you’re really in a pinch. A lot of people fail at profiting from yard sales, but my mom used to give them frequently and always made several hundred dollars each time she did. The key is to not simply focus on clothing and toys like a lot of people do, but sell appliances, furniture, tools and any specialized equipment that may be collecting dust in storage. If you don’t have anything to sell, search the freebie section of Craigslist and look for items there (move fast when you find something good!) or try your local Freecycle, but be sure to be upfront with the members on your intention to sell whatever you receive.
First step, however, is to communicate with your landlord. If she or he will allow you to do so, pay what you can as soon as you can until it’s all paid off. You’d be surprised by the owners who are willing to work with an honest tenant who has fallen on tough times, but who is at least trying and, most importantly, keeping the lines of communication open.
I don’t see it as a hustle either, but I see it as misleading. He needs the home to live, whether he was doing this project or not. He doesn’t need the money to make the movie, he needs the money to keep a roof over his head. It’s not as simple as you make it out to be.
Here is what people are trying to say, I think.
When I saw this thread: I can’t pay my rent, I am doomed, I thought: Damn. I’ve been in that humiliating position, literally scraping up coins from the couch to pay rent. Maybe I could throw him a couple of bucks.
When I saw that it was actually just a complaint about how his crowdfunding endeavor didn’t go well, even though it sounds like a great project, it left a bad taste in my mouth.
I know. I’m not trying to sell this film to make a living from it, I’m trying to complete it. Once I have one project completed it’s not only easier to make a second, but it’s something I can show (funding bodies, employers, etc) that prove my skills and talents. That is my goal. I am not going to live off the spoils of a clever scheme, I’m trying to get my life on track and get a job doing something I’m good at.
It’s a short film. Short films do not make money, nobody buys them. This is not going to cinemas and I get a 30% cut on ticket sales. At best it might get shown at a few online film festivals. I am making no profit from the completion of this film.
This thread is a complaint that I’m about to be homeless, and I was looking for sympathy and advice. What I got was a misinformed pile-on. Thanks for boosting my self-esteem!
I notice you’re still brushing off suggestions about liquidating possessions or (gasp) getting a job like the people you’re whining for support from had to to support themselves. Apparently the artiste cannot condescend to even think of such mundanities as self-support, but can only howl for handouts for being oh-so-artistic.
For FUCK’S SAKE! You have NO IDEA what I’m scrambling to do here while my home is being taken away from me!
As somebody who contributed to your project I do feel you were at least misdirecting attention away from your personal situation.
Here’s the OP of that thread:
The part I italicized is literally the only mention you made of your living expenses on this board (prior to this thread) or on the webpage for the project. Everything else was talking about the direct expenses of the movie.
But the thing is, you don’t need to know what I am spending the money on. All you need to know is the job will be completed and you receive the perk you paid for. This transparency you’re all asking for is none of your damn business. The honesty of my even saying that much, which I thought was quite clear, is more than you’d get for most other projects of this type.
I was hiding nothing. You all just had a twisted expectation that was far from the truth, and that you are now blaming me for not fulfilling. I’m sorry I can’t magically come up with frivolous expenses less important than rent and food to spend the money on instead.
If you wanted $40 an hour work then you have said so upfront.
I am in the process of writing my second non-fiction book proposal to put in font of a literary agent after successful completion of my first book with a fellow Doper. I hold down what amounts to a full time job and I watch two kids at the same time. This limits my time to work on the book but it really doesn’t matter very much as I can only do that kind of intensive work for at most two hours a day even when I have nothing else to do. If I were going to ask Dopers for money so I could complete the project, I would expect questions about exactly where the money was going.
I am sorry you are facing such a dire situation. That sucks and I’m sorry to hear it. I think most people who donated money to your project thought you were fine with basic necessities and simply needed funding for additional items like film.
Your honesty was minimal.
Rent and food may be your most important expenses but you didn’t mention either in your request for money.
I just quoted your post. I’ve read all the posts in this thread, including the posts previous to my first post and your post quoting the first post of the first thread referenced in the first post of this thread.
Nothing about any of these posts in any of these threads convinces me that GuanoLad did something wrong when asked for money to finish the movie and keep himself alive while he did so.
And I agree entirely with GuanoLad’s last post, that unless GuanoLad promised a detailed, itemized, accounting of where the money goes, he doesn’t owe anybody such a thing.
It is, in fact, foolish to give money to someone who tells you upfront that he will use the money, in part, to keep himself alive and then get angry that he wants to use the money, in part, to keep himself alive.
He said that he needed the money to keep himself alive while he worked on the film. Nothing dishonest about that.
Tipping?
…here’s the thing. You weren’t asked to tip. If you contributed $5.00 to the project you would end up in the credits. If you contributed $10.00 you’d get a downloadable script. If you contributed $25 you’d get a copy of the DVD. This isn’t tipping. This is exchanging money for a tangible product/servce.
Do you feel ripped off when you go to the movies, spend $20.00 and later find out that some of that money went to the producers? Do you think thats tipping when they use that money to buy a house?
Crowdsourced funding is simply an attempt to reverse the current way of funding various types of projects. It is a way to fund up front projects that interest you. If you look at it as tipping then you are looking at it wrong. When you look at a project: you first decide whether or not you want the product/service on offer. You then evaluate the chances of the project coming to completion. If you don’t want the product and/or you don’t trust the person running the project: then don’t spend your money. It isn’t “charity.” It isn’t “an investment”: you don’t put in $1.00 hoping for a $2.00 return. And it certainly isn’t tipping.
People shouldn’t have to hold you hand on the internet. Spending money is your responsibility. GuanoLad was upfront on where the money was going. Everything had been filmed. He was three-quarters of the way through post-production. He stated he was doing all the post production himself. “Not just the editing, but the 3D graphics, the compositing, the sound effects, the colour grade, and even the DVD. Only the music will be handled by someone else.” Where on earth did you think the funds were going to go? Not on sets. Not on software. Not on catering.
Again: you completely miss the point of what crowdsourcing funds is all about. Crowdsourcing turns the traditional model of funding on its head. It flips it around. Thats the whole point. Do you want to see projects like Eleanor Xandler, Temporal Detective get made? Then fund the project. If you don’t, then don’t.