I didn't feed them enough!

Hell, I don’t have kids, but if I had them I’d starve first, too.

Princhester, we don’t know enough to know if this woman is mentally ill or stressed beyond her breaking point (I, personally, kind of doubt it, but I’m not willing to pass judgment). She may very well claim mental illness in her defense: in theory, this will then be checked for and either proven or disproven in a court of law.

I would be interested to know how she said “I didn’t feed them enough, I guess.” I can think of at least two ways to possibly interpret that sentence: Stoned and/or uncaring, or simply exhausted.

Ensign Edison: I should have been more specific: untreated at the time of her incident. But we really must stop this hijack.

I just read a post on another board from a person who knew this family - it sounds like the horrible, stereotypical, “nobody knew anything was wrong, so nobody did anything.”

Here’s the post from the person who knew the family:

Now, that’s a chilling story; the poster’s daughter sat outside with the mom and had a smoke with her while all their children played together, while the twins were already dead inside.

The latest news reports have found posts to a message board by the mother suggesting precisely that she was getting extremely stressed.

I am crushed, just imagined the cries of those children…

I actually think I’m going to throw up.

:frowning:

The latest reports (media) indicate that the woman was finding it difficult to cope after the birth of the twins- she felt herself “drowning” and posted at a message board with her problems. I am no psychologist but I would have thought that if you were alert enough to know of the issues you are facing- enough to post to an Internet group you know enough to call some local child support group.

See, I see the twins as having given up on the crying long since. And that makes me physically ill as well…
I am not out for this mother’s blood (and I really, really blame the father in this too–there is no reason he should get mentioned less often in negative terms) because her blood (or his) won’t bring these twins back. They need to have the other kids taken away (but the kids kept together). I don’t really know what to do with these parents. Mental health care, I suppose. Jail time? What purpose does it serve? Oddly enough, for one so liberal as me, I have no problem with enforced sterilization of both parents–after all, whether mentally ill or no, they have shown that they cannot be responsible for children–and not just the ones who died.

Those poor kids–the twins and the others who have to live with this horror. :frowning:

I agree that the father is every bit as culpable as the mother- even if they were “separated”. The whole thing sickens me- we live in Brisbane- not bloody Rwanda.

Doesn’t mean she would have been able to think of it, or to recognize she needed their help. I’ve been caring for depressed parents and, while they could spend hours moaning, any attempt at getting them to fix it would met with strong resistance and anger. Saying “maybe I should call the doc” triggered yells of “I’m not sick, God damn you!” - from daily-Mass people who flinched if my brothers or myself so much as said “shit.”

I don’t disagree with you at all Nava. I have no experience of depressed patients, and whilst she may have recognised problems enough to post about them it may not have been significant enough for her to call a child caring authority.

Do I really believe that? Probably not.

In most first world countries isn’t it common to immediately find a pediatrician after your childs birth and go to regulary scheduled appointments every 2-3 months until the kid turns two?
Apparently not the case here but how common is it for people to have a baby and never step foot in a doctors office with them?

I was too saddened to muster up enough RO to start a thread about this, but I’m glad someone has. I can’t imagine how terrible the lives of those children must have been that no one thought it was odd that there were no sounds from their room for more than a week. In my mind, 18 month old twins should be the cheeky, noisy, whirlwinds of activity that the whole family dotes on, not silent bundles locked in their room that even their own father hasn’t bothered to look in on since Christmas.

The standard schedule here (I believe it’s the same in all states) calls for visits to the Maternal and Child Health Centre at birth, then 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 2,4,6,8 months, 1 year and 18 months. So they probably would have been just at the point where someone would be thinking about contacting them to say “You know you haven’t had an 18-month visit, right? When you coming in?”

As a complicating factor, I see they had moved since the twins’ birth. Round here, this would mean that they could chose to move to a new MCHC if there was one closer to their new house, but they don’t have to. So possibly nobody knew for certain that they were in charge of visits for this family.

Falling through the cracks indeed…

I can’t imagine something like that. How awful. There’s really nothing more to say.

Oh no.

My guess is that everything went to hell, then things got so bad that by the time she knew she had to get professional help, she also knew that if she did she was going to get charged with neglect. So she just went catatonic on the whole situation because she couldn’t cope. And the father didn’t want to know.

…but if you’re presupposing that they were mentally ill enough not to be culpable for their actions, then sterilization after they’ve received psychiatric treatment would be unnecessary, and punitive.

And if they weren’t mentally ill, they’re showing an inability to follow legal and societal rules against taking human life, while in knowledge of the penalties. Grounds enough for preemptively sterilizing them to possibly prevent future crimes, but not imprisoning them to possibly prevent future crimes?

Well, they were pretty skinny…

I don’t agree with your interpretation of my statement. I don’t see sterilization of the mentally ill, in this case, to be punitive or unnecessary. I don’t see the sterilization as a punishment at all-more like a preventative measure.

Perhaps just having to live for the rest of their lives without their surviving children would be enough. I don’t think so, though. Somehow, I can see deal old Dad just walking away with no problem (after all, he walked away from the twins long ago). Mom, once she is treated for her depression or other illness, might have more trouble dealing with her loss, but there I might be succumbing to stereotype. Locking them away solves nothing really. I don’t know what the answer is–no doubt they’ll both do jail time. I worry more about the remaining kids.

I can’t fault child protective services or whatever you all have in Oz. They had moved and the way it works here is that the parents opt into those “well baby” visits. If the parents don’t bring the kids in–the docs have no way of knowing they exist. Not until they start school and vaccinations need to be done (and even there we have loopholes) does the state get involved.

The part that most sickens is that these twins learned that crying does not work–IOW, they had no hope and of course, no way to feed themselves. Innocent babes murdered slowly over time. Ghastly.

But in this case assuming they were insane enough to need treatment, not punishment, and assuming they’re curable, sterilization becomes unfair—you’d then be keeping people who weren’t mentally inclined to kill their children from procreating. And you’ve decided to cross the line into surgically altering people to guard against possible future criminal behavior.

Look, my point is that by pursuing timid half-measures, you’re already crossing ethical lines you were trying to draw for yourself, and setting up support for arguments in favor of just the kind of measures you were trying to avoid for the sake of morality.

Oh, brother. :rolleyes: I am not worried about my “ethical” lines. I am conveying feelings of strong anger, disgust, horror, dismay despair and other negative emotions–I ran out of words and my thesaurus isn’t handy. How is sterilization unfair? Never mind–I really don’t want to know your answer.
You don’t need to save me from myself, really–it’s ok to express thoughts and feelings about this appalling situation in strong terms. They don’t have to hold any ethical (or even logical) line–they’re* feelings*.

What will likely happen is that they will go to prison–how does that help the mentally ill mom? Dad I’ve pretty much written off–she may have been out to lunch but he was still a viable member of society–I hold him to a higher level of responsibility here (if she was indeed mentally ill). He abdicated his duties willingly, she did not. That does not excuse her in the least. I see it as mom having to be the responsible parent, but if she isn’t/couldn’t/wouldn’t, Dad needed to step up.

You don’t have to agree with me. I hope we can agree that these kids need good, stable homes with therapy, compassion and understanding for many years to come. (how in hell does anyone get “over” something like this?)