Well, her last name would suggest that she’s white. 
Bohunk? That’s a new one to me - does it relate to honky at all, etymologically, I wonder? I take it the word itself derives from Bohemia?
ETA: Never mind, I see Cecil has alreadydealt with it
I don’t know. Does it actually matter for my example?
Well, you were making a point that people don’t consider her to be Black, and I was asking why would they-- she doesn’t have any Black ancestry (that I know of). In my experience the other two are thought of as mixed race. It just seems strange to try and make a point with an example that doesn’t make the point.
In general people in the U.S. make racial classifications based almost entirely on how someone looks. If I look at Jessica Alba or Derek Jeeter I don’t immediately have access to their ancestry. So I can just make a guess based on their physical features. I don’t know if it’s strictly a matter of being more accepting of mixed heritage individuals, though that might be part of it, it’s just a matter of how we end up classifying people.
Marc
:smack: Uh…it’s such a great point you brought up I thought it should be repeated? No? Umm…nobody’s actually stipulated it yet?
Actually when I look at Jessica Alba I don’t think white, black, or hispanic. The blood has already left my brain so I’m incapable of thinking.
[Family Guy] What is Jessica Alba anyway? If I was 40 years younger I would plow that into next July. [/Family Guy]
Okay, I was clueless of her ancestry, but I thought she was another good example of someone that just looked mixed race. I don’t think people think about or worry about parents anymore as much as just a casual thought about skin color. I know Derek Jeter’s father is black and mother is white (Irish in fact) but only because I am a Yankee fan. I think Mariah has a black parent but I don’t know which one. I do know her Mom is an opera singer. I thought Jessica had a black or mixed parent.
I was just trying to say that I don’t think most people follow or think about the 1% rule anymore.
Slypork: I don’t know anyone that disagrees with your statement.
Jim
I have not encountered anyone who says he is voting for Obama because of guilt or evening a playing field. Most seem to feel inspired by his speeches and political stances.
But what about Will Smith? Tisha Campbell? Morris Day? Andrew Young? What do you think most people see them as?
If you didn’t have the benefit of knowing Barack Obama, Tiger Woods, or Halle Berry’s parentage, what would you call them? Would you see them as being mixed by default? Or would you call them black?
“Mixed” celebrities are often treated as novelities in that their racial/ethnic pedigree is household knowledge in a way that others are not. If no one knew that their mom or dad was white, in terms of racial perception they would be considered as non-remarkable as any other black person with lightish skin. And based on my experiences, I believe few people (if anyone) would be clamoring to call them anything except black. I’ve never heard anyone say that Will Smith or Morris Day isn’t black, even though there’s nothing especially “non-biracial” about their appearance. They are black men with light skin. We are left with that impression because their wikipedia entries fail to point out the racial makeup of their parents, leaving us to resort to the default understanding of the way race is define in this society.
And yeah, this is the one-drop rule at work. It may not be immediately obvious to someone who isn’t subject to the rule, but I assure you that it’s still present.
At the risk of opening a can of worms, I shall suggest that what flips the black/white toggle switch in most people’s brains is not so much the skin tone itself, but the appearance of facial features (and probably to a lesser degree, the hair). Width of the nose and lips, et cetera. Something difficult to quantify (so don’t ask me to) and possibly subliminal.
I think most people have had the experience of seeing, and being momentarily confused by, a “black” person who could easily pass for a Caucasian with a deep tan, or someone with white skin but what used to be (still is?) called “Negroid features.”
Maybe someone could do an experiment using one of those police sketch-artist programs, leaving a neutral skin tone but gradually adjusting facial features and determining at what point respondents begin assessing the race as “black” rather than “white,” or vice versa.
This is the part I don’t get. Forget race.
Obama is a believer in a higher power, a supreme being. Doesn’t this automatically make him an idiot, a fool, a deluded lunatic?
Doesn’t this make him an insane follower of sky pixies and invisible unicorns?
According to you and the other atheists on this board, it does. In which case I am wondering why you are supporting and not condemning him.
I guess it’s because he butters your bread.
No.
No.
I’ve never said any such thing.
How so?
Obama has written intelligently and thoughtfully about the importance of faith in the American progressive tradition, while acknowledging the fact that theocrats have made agnostics and people with less popular religions wary and suspect of people of faith. I frankly see no reason to worry about his form of faith, which is wise and decent and has nothing to do with my fear of the Huckabee-style theocrat, who thinks he knows what God likes best.
My sentiments exactly!
I am not even sure what the argument is at this point, but for point of reference, I never really thought of Halle as black. She appears mixed. I don’t know Tisha Campbell. I just looked her up, I do know her, but only from Little Shop of Horrors and cool, she is a Jersey Girl.
My only point was people have moved beyond the one drop rule to generally just how people self identify. If a Latin American Baseball player identifies as Dominican but is darker skinned than the average African American, most baseball fans consider him a Latino anyway.
If you were testing me on it, I would say Will Smith, Morris Day, Andrew Young & Barack were all black. Tiger has clearly chosen to stress that he is mixed heritage.
Where does the one drop rule still come into play today? It appears more to be an arbitrary standard that works today. Based on skin color and associations.
Jason Kidd is another good example. He looks ‘white’ to me. It turns out his pop was African-American and his mom was Irish-American. He has occasionally identified as African-American. So even though he doesn’t look black, I would consider him black as he considers himself black.
Jim
While I think we have moved beyond the one drop rule, people aren’t allowed quite so much freedom to self-identify. Suppose Barack Obama chose to self-identify as White. He’d get a lot of :dubious: looks. But he’s just as much White as he is Black. And since he was raised mostly among Whites, maybe he has more reason to self-identify as White than as Black. I think someone with African heritage has to look unambiguously not-Black to self identify as not-Black. What % that means is going to depend on the person.
Let me clarify that a bit. I think someone has to look unambiguously not-Black to self identify as White, if he has some African ancestry. I don’t think there is any problem self-identifying as “mixed”, which could be considered not-Black. What seems to be coming back into vogue is the term Creole to describe people of obviously mixed White and Black (and other) ancestry. I never heard that term much 20 years ago, but I’m hearing it more and more these days.
I’ve heard the word “Halfrican,” which is probably not PC but is kind of harmlessly funny.