I was reading a book of slang words for a non-English language I´m studying, and after reading one, someone who is a native speaker said ´no, that is vulgar´, but from a distance it seems strange some words are ´naughty´ and you shouldn´t say them.
Why does it seem that every language has some ´naughty´words? If they are bad why did people invent them? Are there any languages with no bad words at all?
Everyone needs someone to hate, something to hate, or at least see as inferior or taboo. It comes from our own innate failings and insecurities, which are often ‘‘dealt with’’ by picking a ‘‘worthy’’ target and projecting onto it.
Obviously we need particular vocabulary to achieve this.
This reminds me of a particularly good Bloom County comic where the newly enlightened Steve Dallas tries to teach his clueless parents some politically correct terms:
Steve: People of color…
Mom: People of color…
Steve: Yes!
Mom: Colored people…
Steve: NO!!
Dad: We’re leaving!
I’m obviously not a linguist, but swear words, bad words, vulgar words, etc. are usually reserved for descriptions of things that are considered either sacred or vulgar.
George carlins 7 words you can’t say on television (shit, piss, cunt, fuck, cocksucker, motherfucker, tits) all relate to the sex organs. Either what they do, what comes out of them, etc.
Nowadays if you had to make a list of 7 words you can’t say on tv, it would probably be racial, religious or sexual insults: nigger, faggot, spic, kike, etc.
So I’d wager in modern society, we do not consider sexuality as vulgar as in the past, but we consider prejudice more vulgar. In the 70s, prejudiced words were not as bad and now they are career ending.
A lot of swear words and vulgar words seem to revolve around either the sex organs, prejudice or criticizing the mainstream religion.
Also, when you arrange things from best to worst, there will always be something at the ‘worst’ end of the scale. Even if you somehow abolish the example at that extreme, the next-worst thing is now the worst.
Some situations call for harsh language.
I don’t speak Japanese well enough to be certain about this, but I’ve heard that Japanese doesn’t have harsh pejoratives in the sense that English (and many other languages) do. There’s a little about this in the Wikipedia entry for baka, which basically means “fool” but depending on context can be either pretty mild or extremely insulting.
The Basque language does not have “native” swearwords per se. Therefore, when they need them, Basque speakers will use Spanish swearwords. It can be quite amusing to hear two people speaking Basque and suddenly, in the middle of a stream of utterly alien sounds, hear a 100% Spanish swearword.
Or French, or English… whichever other languages that person happens to speak along with Basque.
And it’s not as if you can’t curse in Basque. A good JAUNGOIKOA! can raise the roof; the Eneko-a in the song “deseos tengo” is clearly not a term of endearment; in both cases what makes them “bad words” isn’t the words themselves (a name for God and an invocation to Saint Ignatius respectively) but the tone and context, but this is also true of the Spanish ostia or the French tabernacle… or of shit, tits or piss. That stream of “utterly alien sounds” with a smattering of whatever the speaker’s other-language(s) happens to be is often quite profane itself; it is just not as well-understood by people who speak even less Basque than I do. You, sir, should’a known better.
(JoseB is studying Basque. Apparently from a book, if he hasn’t learned any dirty words yet.)
There appears to be something of a “meme” to the effect that certain languages are rather feeble in the profanity department; so they tend, when swearing is called for, to borrow from a neighbouring tongue. It would also appear that generally, it’s not actually so (as with the foregoing posts re Basque / Spanish). “The tale is told” by English-only speakers in England, that the Celtic languages are – compared to English – somewhat weak as regards swearwords and insults; but I’ve seen that notion debunked on the Dope, by people well-acquainted with Celtic tongues.
The most recent example of this widespread idea which I’ve encountered; concerns the people of the Aland Islands – Finnish territory, but almost all Alanders’ first, and preferred, language is Swedish. The only use they have for the Finnish language, is to borrow swearwords from it – with Swedish seemingly being weak for swearing in. I have no doubt that a Swedish-speaker will weigh in here, strongly asserting that Swedish is highly rich in profanity and obscenity, and has absolutely no need of words from those funny people to the east.
(Re Finnish – there is the thing by Bill Bryson in his book Mother Tongue, claiming that Finnish is without swearwords, and the Finns’ only means of “swearing” is to say in their language, “in the restaurant”. Everyone else seems unanimous that here, Bryson is spouting nonsense re a subject about which he loves to pontificate, but is in fact abysmally ignorant.)
I don’t think this is it. Yes some “naughty” words are related to race and hate but many aren’t. George Carlin’s list is based more on taboos than hatred of a group. A more modern list may have more race related words but I think they are there because they are taboo, not because they are specifically race related. As hatred becomes less socially acceptable, the related words become more taboo.
To my mind “cunt” is still the single most offensive swear word. In Australia it is gender neutral, calling someone a “cunt” has nothing to do with a women’s genitals or women at all (I understand the US is a bit different in this regard). “Bitch” is different, it is both more mild and more clearly associated with gender.
I think swear words exist because we need to be able to offend and shock people occasionally. There’s nothing quite like a normally mild mannered person calling someone a “fucking cunt!”. Overuse is counter productive and should be avoided.
I look forward to the day when my children say “fuck” or “cunt” to me in an attempt to offend their old Dad. I will act suitably shocked of course ;).
P.S. I have typed “cunt” more in this post than I would say it in at least a year or two, but when I do say it, people are either suitably amused or shocked depending on what I’m trying to achieve. That only works because I don’t say it often.
Well, I think there is something of a paradox going on with Swedish profanity, which the Wikipedia article may illustrate. First, it states that
But then you read the list of profanities, and many of them are really quite profane indeed. So what gives?
Well, much Swedish profanity is, indeed, quite weak and euphemistic, to the point of being almost childish. *Sjutton! * Seventeen! There’s a Swedish swear word. Or they are the equivalent of “gosh darn it”. But there is also a register of very punchy profanity indeed, that’ll blow your hair back. The problem is, I think, that the first kind can be too weak, and the second kind is so punchy, in the context of its use in Swedish, that you often can’t bring yourself use it unless you *really *mean it. What Swedish is lacking in, then, I think, is mid-range profanity, the kind that is suitable for adults, but not so strong that it can’t be employed for everyday, casual use.
It’s a trade off for a language, though. I think English is probably lacking in the really very strong indeed kind, since most strong profanity is used widely enough to have lost some of its punch. If you’re so honestly pissed off that you properly want to kill someone, it can be tricky to find the right words in English. It’s probably easier to express that sentiment in Swedish.
Vad i jävla helvete pratar du om?! Vilket satans rövhål kom fram med den där skitsnack?
Martian Bigfoot is on the right track but a bit of confusion is evident. Sjutton (literally, as noted ‘seventeen’) is not in and of itself a swearword but is in fact a euphemism for satan, which is considered one of the most vulgar (along with fan, both of which have to do with the Devil).
A bit of cultural relativism comes into play here, as “Vad fan?!” would be the equivalent of “What the fuck?!” in English but literally means “What the devil?!” - which makes you sound like a character in Wodehouse or Conan Doyle.
Swedish does make use of swear words linked to bodily functions or the organs used in those connections - and they are considered vulgar to the same degree as English speakers consider the equivalents - but they are somewhat outranked by the ones with a more mythological orientation. I’d suspect that has to do with the somewhat fierce battle Christianity had to fight against the old beliefs in converting the Vikings (and here I note a strong parallel with Russian profanities).
And on that note, an anecdote. My grandfather - the son of Swedish immigrants - always used to call my mother “imp of Satan”, which we all found endearing. Then just a couple years ago, long after his passing, I decided to try to backtranslate it into Swedish, and found out that it was basically the Swedish equivalent of “fucking brat”.
Ma thought it was the most hilarious thing she’d ever heard.
There’s a big difference between words that are disapproved of because of a social taboo (bad words) and words that are disapproved of because they are perceived as disparaging someone else (vulgar insults) and words that are disapproved of because they are seen as part of a social system that disadvantages certain groups (bigotry).
It doesn’t make sense to conflate these things
I think you illustrated my point. Fire off that tirade, and people will take cover behind chairs. You can be PROPERLY UPSET in Swedish, or you can swear like a kindergartner, using cute euphemisms. But you can’t really say “What the fuck are you talking about? What goddamned asshole told you that load of crap?”, in a more casual way, while eating a sandwich, the way you can in English.
Or maybe you can. It probably depends on local conditions.
There’s a wide variety of insulting words for ‘you’ in Japanese (that often get translated as ‘you bastard’, ‘you asshole’, etc.), and some profane terms like ‘kuso’ can be translated as anything from ‘darn it!’ to ‘shit!’ depending on context. Still, there are some words that are considered taboo and are verboten in broadcasts, such as some words related to race, disability, etc. and the equivalent of ‘cunt’.
Really, though, it’s just a matter of demarcating the boundary of the taboo part of the language differently than most European languages do. Scandinavian languages have a variety of taboo terms related to hell, the devil, etc., but most Americans would consider that weaksauce. French-Canadian swearing involves far more religious imagery than English. And so on. As far as I know, every natural language (including sign languages) has a category of profane or taboo forms.
Thanks, guys: all, of much interest. I was planning to incorporate in my vocabulary henceforth, the envisaged marvellously anti-climactic non-swearword Sjutton – it appears, though, that it’s a substitute for a real bad word !
Interesting, that Swedish swearing seen as at the two extremes – “milk-and-water”, and “triple-X-rated”; lacking – as you say – material in the middle, suitable for adults but not too strong for everyday use. English’s not having the “triple-X-rated” – maybe that’s an argument against (in whatever language) undiscriminating folk’s over-filling their speech with profanity, with “every other word an obscene one”-- weakens and cheapens the whole thing !
My stuff about the Åland islanders and their borrowing bad words from Finnish: that comes from reading about the fascinating story of Gustaf Erikson of Mariehamn in the Ålands, and his one-time anachronistic commercial fleet of large, often four-masted, sailing ships – demise of which came about just after World War 2.
A relative of mine is a sailing-ship buff, and has a huge library of books on the subject; including a number about Mr. Erikson’s outfit in its latter years – highly interesting. His ships were manned largely by Swedish-speaking Finnish citizens from the Ålands; also by assorted other guys, including some “Finn Finns”, and various other nationalities. Crewing a big sailing ship is an arduous occupation, requiring the expenditure of as much bad language as can be got from whatever sources. English-speakers writing about their time on Erikson vessels, quote – involving here, the “Finnish better for swearing” notion – assorted “Baltic-area bad words”, among them some mentioned in your link, Martian Bigfoot: Swedish “Satan” and “Helvete” (Hell), and Finnish “Perkele” (Devils). One such guy observes that in his opinion, this stuff is a feeble apology for swearing, and that English bad language is far stronger and more worthwhile…
Further in this general strain: a delightful book about the “Erikson experience” is Eric Newby’s The Last Grain Race, telling of a return voyage Britain – Australia made by the author as a crewman on an Erikson ship, on the eve of World War 2. Linguistic fun is had, with Swedish being the ship’s “working language”, and the Swedish for “foresail” being “fock”. A heaven-sent loophole for the author (book first published in the 1950s, when censorship of published works in Britain was more rigorous than now) to include in reported conversation by his crewmates – substituting for the probably most-loved-and-used English swearword – “fock / focker / focking”: and his stratagem worked.
Bunch of the gang around the table on lunch break discussing the latest fake news (or whether Swedish is lacking in the curse-word department), yeah - you could say that casually over a sandwich and probably get a couple laughs in the bargain. On the carpet in your boss’ office regarding a particularly costly foul-up that’s been pinned on you, more than likely the staff outside is looking for cover themselves.
To be fair, in the former case it’s not likely to be completely laughed off, but you can nonetheless swear in Swedish without being properly upset. And they can be used for comedic effect; there’s a popular comic in print (weekly papers) called “Zelda”, and in one strip she asks her boyfriend how much spaghetti would be enough for three servings for dinner. He replies “About the size of a cock”, and the remaining panels – well. (SFW, but highly suggestive.)
Well, yeah, it is not as if you can find Basque language teachers in the Netherlands that easily, outside of specialized courses at the University ^.^ Thanks for fighting my ignorance in that respect!
Nonetheless, the phenomenon seems to be real, in my experience: Lots of non-Basque swearwords have apparently been incorporated into the language for general use.
I studied ASL and even it has signs for fuck, horny and other curse words.
I’m not sure I get the joke. That’s a generous amount of spaghetti she’s measuring out. Does her boyfriend have a very large cock? If so, why is that funny? It seems that there is a missed opportunity for a much better joke there, where she boils up only a single strand.
But, yeah, “kuk” is a good word, and, I suppose, fits in the casual mid-range region. But, hey, it’s not like I said Swedish is totally denuded in that area. “Kuk” is also a rather funny word, much more so than “cock” is in English. Which, BTW, made me think of something. There’s that movie, “Fucking Åmål”, and it’s famous line “fucking jävla kuk-Åmål”.
The title for the English release was changed to the rather more bland “Show Me Love”. So, “fucking”, borrowed from English, is fine to use on a movie poster in Swedish, but not in English. That’s my first observation. I won’t speculate too much as to why that is, but it’s interesting to note.
The next observation: “Fucking jävla kuk-Åmål” translates, more or less, to “fucking damned cock-Åmål” (Åmål being the name of a town). In Swedish, this is a rather funny sounding phrase. As in comedic. However, “fucking damned cock-[placename]” is not particularly likely to raise a chuckle in English. Generally, I think you’re onto something regarding comedic effect. Profanity can often be funny in Swedish, in a way that doesn’t seem to work in English.
