I don't like Phantom of the Opera. Why does that make me feel like such a schmuck?

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My FIL decided to buy tickets to see “Phantom of the Opera” for his kids and their spouses so that we could all go out as a family and see it (8 tickets total at around $60 a pop).

Up to this point, I have never really felt compelled to go see Phantom, but FIL was footing the bill so I figured why not. I’ve heard good things about it and it has won several awards.

So we went and saw it today.

I wasn’t impressed. In fact I really didn’t like it.

Don’t get me wrong. There was some good singing and acting, but it really did not strike my fancy.

In fact at intermission, my MIL asked me how I liked it thus far and I felt like a complete moron because I didn’t want to tell her I wasn’t enjoying myself (I thought that most of the first act was pretty boring). I also didn’t want to lie and say it was the greatest thing since breast implants, so I just kind of stood there and smiled weakly. It was incredibly awkward and I felt more and more awkward as we were leaving and people everywhere were just raving about it being “soooooooo good” and “amazing”.

I didn’t like it. Why does that make me feel like such a moron?

No idea why you feel like a moron. But, I have a story.

15-20 years ago, my parents, brother and I went to see Phantom in Toronto. We all enjoyed it, or such is my memory. I have a CD with highlights from it, and listen periodically–so do others.

Fast forward to this fall, I rent the DVD of the new movie version of Phantom. Mom, Dad and I watch it. When the movie ends, Mom says “Finally, I understand what was going on. I had a cold and was miserable and couldn’t understand what happened when we saw the musical”

We have been unable to persuade her (not that we’ve tried hard) that it was confusing the first time she saw it because that’s the way the show is designed. In the movie they could show things they didn’t onstage–and made other choices which made some things less ambiguous. But it was really kind of funny how happy she was that it finally made sense after she saw the movie this fall.

Its a melodramatic story with an over the top musical score that simply exhudes “cheese”. Like almost all musicals post “Rogers and Hammerstein”, holds appeal only for the extremely um…lets say…“flamboyant” and ill-informed, undercultured, and “over scarfed” crowd.

Sorry, but with little exception any “Andrew LLoyd Webber” , “Celine Dion”, or blend thereof fits that description. Gold and Glitter baby. Gag me with a diamond studded spoon. All hat no cattle. George Lucas. 'nuff said.

Yours, humbly submitted of course…

Well, if you’re looking for Andrew Lloyd Webber haters, you’ve come to the right place. There are hundreds of SDMB regulars who loathe the man, and will be only too happy to tell you “The show sucked, and you’re RIGHT not to have liked it.”
Webber has passionate fans and passionate detractors. His detractors are more prominent here.

Personally, I saw the show and enjoyed ot, but didn’t love it. As with most Webber shows, there are a few wonderful songs and a lot of forgettable ones. So, I had a perfectly pleasant evening, but not a great one.

If you’d paid a fortune and hated it, then maybe I’d understand why you felt like a schmuck.

As it is, what happened? You went to see a show that you didn’t care for! Come on, is this the first or only time you haven’t liked something that was hugely popular?

People are different. Opinions vary. Millions of people loved “Phantom,” but many people didn’t. In the end, it’s just a piece of entertainment, not a work of art, and it doesn’t reflect badly on you if you just admit, “I didn’t care for it.”

Maybe you’re worried everybody else ‘got’ the show and you didn’t. If you didn’t like it, go ahead and don’t like it.

When I was 10 and my music teacher introduced me to Phantom, I immediately became obsessed and begged with my parents for first the recording, then to go see it when we went to Toronto. I saved the ticket stub and souvenir programme preciously.

This was in between seeing The Pearl Fishers, Madama Butterfly, and The Dialogues of the Carmelites.

My dad always claimed he had no suspicions about me. I think he was just unobservant.

Ooh, if you saw it in Toronto did you see Peter Karrie in the role? I hear he was supposed to be really excellent. Or was that back when it was Colm Wilkinson, whom is fabulous.

I’m a huge fan of Phantom, seen the show many times.

There’s nothing wrong with you. I rather liked it(at least on stage) but the movie leaves me cold.

But I didn’t particulary like Rent(at least the movie), frankly, so some musicals just don’t work for some people.

Well I guess there’s two ways to respond here.

First, add me to the list of those who didn’t enjoy it. And I’m not a moron.

Second, I guess you’ve accepted the idea that you should have certain feelings and tastes. Where’s the evidence for that? Isn’t there as much evidence that geniuses will dislike Phantom, i.e. none?

My advice: Speak out loud about what YOU like and dislike.

Just wondering: Is there a South Park episode in this? I can imagine Stan giving his little talk at the end.

sigh

You know, I could tell very similar stories. I saw Phantom with Sarah Brightman; Les Mis with Colm Wilkinson and Frances Rufflle; I got Bernadette Peters to sign my copy of the Into The Woods Playbill after I saw it the first time; I had three different versions of the Chess recording; I saw Miss Saigon ten times and Rent more than 20 times.

But I am straight (unless, in 42 years, I just haven’t met the right guy yet). Seriously - married, we have a kid, and I have no lingering desires to wallow in manflesh at all. And I always wonder why interest in showtunes is supposed to be such a reliable indicator of being gay.

I grew up listening to the recording of ‘Phantom’, and so when I finally saw the show, with a Phantom other than Michael Crawford, it was a strange experience. Lacked the same energy. I don’t regret going, but I’ve enjoyed a number of other Broadway shows much more (Dirty Rotten Scoundrels was excellent, in particular).

The show sucked, and you’re RIGHT not to have liked it.

:slight_smile:

Personally, I think all of Andy Weber’s songs sound the same…like one song that never ends.

I never saw Phantom on stage, but did buy the DVD film version (I collect film musicals) and liked it far more than I thought I would - at least the film version.

I will never, however, buy a film version of Cats…had to sit through that show five times and hated it from the first time…in case you are wondering, a friend our ours starred in the European show and it was a tad difficult to refuse tickets when she performed and called us with free ticket to show up.

Good news for you Phantom fans…the Venetian Hotel in Las Vegas is building a special stage, with a real lake and TWO chandeliers, and Andy himself has been here to update the show and it will be opening soon.

I saw Cats on film(a taped stage performance)…and I thought it sucked hard. Some of Webber I like…but in this case, he completely dropped whatever ball he had.

Nothing wrong with not liking Phantom. Among people in the know, it’s decidedly on the low side of “middlebrow”. All of those people all dressed up to see it probably wear rhinestoned tee shirts with cats on them and fanny packs during the day. The insecure middle class wants nothing more than to be perceived as high class, and what is more high class than theater? It’s right up there with thinking Wolfgang Puck is a master chef and that going on a caribbean cruise is a luxury vacation.

I personally was obsessed with it when I was 12 year old. Nothing wrong with liking it, but there is nothing wrong with not liking it either.

I love love love a good musical, in fact I could sing a showtune about it. One of my favorites is ALW’s Jesus Christ Superstar, with a bit further down the line its full sister Evita (a bit flashier and more pretentious sibling than JCS but still a good gal) and to some extent it’s brother Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat (kind of like the shallow fun brother of a friend who’s not as funny but has more depth). I got the soundtrack, thought it had some moments but the “Highlights From” really wouldn’t miss a thing worth having, and I understood it was mostly the dazzle that made the show. I saw the road show of Phantom in a seat so close to the stage that when the explosions happened in the footlights I felt the heat, and it’s the one musical that I liked less after seeing the show. (A reverse is Miss Saigon which I thought was just okay until seeing it then loved it*.)

Of course admittedly seeing the road show in which the leads of Raoul, Christine and The Phantom were played by Jim J. Bullock, Sandy Duncan and Mr. T may have distracted somewhat. (Okay, not really, but I really didn’t like the show.)

The show’s overdone ham & cheese on whine all around. There’s not a single likeable character (Raoul’s a spoiled brat, Christine’s too stupid to be allowed to walk around in public, the Phantom is a remorseless killer that I found about as romantic as Ted Bundy, that bitch Madame Giry needs to receive 20 years hard labor for aiding and abetting, etc.), the songs flow like molten gold mixed with vomit and the movie is a piece of crap without a single moment or performance that ever makes you say “let me rewatch that!”. It’s basically the musical equivalent of an Aaron Spelling soap opera. I like the song Prima Donna because it’s funny and I know so many theater people and I like some of the melodies the first twelve times they’re played but it would be one of the first musicals on the pile if I had to purge my collection. (Last on the pile would be Les Mis, Miss Saigon, Ragtime, Sunday in the Park With George, Assassins [original, not B’way], Fiddler (Topol & Molina my favorite versions) and RENT (B’way). The only non Tim Rice collaboration ALW that might be able to get a reprieve would be Sunset Blvd, which has serious problems but there’s enough that I really like (all of it Norma’s songs except for Joe/Betty’s duet) that I can overlook it, and it’s Norma Desmond so who can’t like it? [rhetorical question, no need to hit reply])

Now LION KING, THAT is a frivolous musical whose stage version will make you squeal like a four year old girl. Easily the most incredible staging I’ve ever seen, to hell with people who say if it’s Disney it has to be cheesey- when I heard Willie Wonka was to be remade I hoped it would be Julie Taymor. I’d love to see what she could do to Assassins, Sunset Blvd or Medea.

Right, right. I wanna say something here I’m kind of groping towards, cut me some slack (excuse me, Bob devotees, Slack) or clear up what I’m saying with sparkling revisions.

There are certain - shows, Broadway and not, certain movies, certain books - that go right to the heart of the simplest fantasies I’ve got, wrap their fingers round my guts, and tug me right into another world. They are usually strong simple fantasies. I may be a sophisticated person, but deep in my heart I’m pure groundling, the folks who used to stand up in the cheap spaces for Shakespeare’s plays the year they were written. The folks who not only laugh at the clowns and throw food at the boriing actors and applaud the quick wit of the show-offs, but also mourn for the heroine and sigh for the hero, and shiver at the villain. I have a hard time watching many movies because they’re made with heavy emotional slams for people in the audience who have seen so much TV they know the plot already, and don’t get involved with the characters. I can’t take violent explosions with deaths in movies that are passed off as mere entertainment; the deaths hit me. I cry when the witch takes Toto away, for God’s sake.

You can tell when a master hand has pitched a fantasy straight at my groundling heart. There’s a, I don’t know, feel to it. Rogers and Hammerstein, sure. Spider-man. Wizard of Oz. The first Interview with the Vampire. Lots of the early Disney animation classics - I’m thinking Bambi. Simple stories, heartstrings, masterfully told, get to me on a level deep below where my conscious mind operates; tug.

The thing is, those stories hit me harder and stay with me longer than much more sophisticated ones. I’ve had the whole Assassins track by Sondheim stuck in my head for days. But do I have dreams about it? No, I have dreams about the Japanese-looking forest with the silent falling snow, with Bambi hunting helplessly through it, “Mother! Mother!”

In the same way: I was a huge Phantom fan when it was new; I saw it not long after it came out. The tremendous staging by Hal Prince gets a lot of credit - when it was new, when nobody knew that broken and dead chandelier was going to fly up backwards into its own past to fill with light and life, it was a huge wallop to my groundling guts. And the story hit me in the guts the same way Bambi hit me, and probably for the same reason. Sampiro is completely right about there being no likeable characters; looking back now, eighteen years later, he is so right I wonder it never hit me before. But I think, back then, I didn’t want to see it. I wanted to feel with the heroine and shudder at the villain. When she kisses the villain, when Good crosses over to sympathize with Evil, and Evil changes as a result, God that hit me in the nads.

Now if you are not a simple groundling, or if you are but THIS IS NOT YOUR FANTASY, then of course it won’t amuse you. As everyone has pointed out, it’s a dumb story, and despite magic moments, is often very badly told. But I have a feeling, if I were sitting around a cave fire with Andrew Lloyd Ugg, and he had no Hal Prince and no actors, but he was a good storyteller, and he told this story about the bad guy poling the beautiful captive across the subterranean river, I’d be on my knees with my eyes starting out of my head, totally caught up in the fantasy. “What next? What next?”

For the record, Superman fantasies leave me half cold. Just don’t hit me in that spot that makes me want to soar and live along with the hero and heroine, ignore the weaknesses of the movie or play, glory in their lives. Why not? Who the hell knows? Likely an effect of my nature plus nurture. The next Spider-man movie? I don’t care if I have to miss a Sondheim opening. I’m there.

So I don’t think you have to apologize because this particular fantasy did not bowl itself down the lines of your soul and body to get to your nads. Hey, some people it doesn’t. My husband it doesn’t. Just tell them which fantasy stories do get to you, and appreciate that it isn’t always the worth or the excellence of the fantasy story that causes it to get to other people. Like the rest of your family. It’s just that it’s a shuriken through the chest straight to their hearts. Or nads.

gabriela, that was beautiful.

I know what your saying, gabriela.

Phantom was practically the soundtrack to my sexual awakening as an early teen. It spoke to how exquisitly sweet and tremulous and yet dangerous and overwheming that time period is. For me the Phantom was carnality- mysterious, forbidden, dangerous but sweetly calling. Something I knew was there but couldn’t quite grasp. Christine was (of course) me- alone in the world (arn’t all pre-teens convinced of this) and a seemingly innocent girl who felt powerful and unexplainable feeling and the dark call of sexuality. Raoul was a parody of the sexless romance we expect from young women. “The Point of No Return”, to me, was the key song. It really kind of spelled out what was really going on under all the stuff about ballerinas and chandaliers.

The whole thing was very, very sexy and very appealing to me. Not in a raunchy way, or in a candlight and roses way, but in some different way that plucked at my very soul and gave me the shivers. As I got older, sex became good clean fun and I can’t really feel those things anymore. The world makes a helluva a lot more sense at 25 than at 13. Now the whole thing looks a little deflated and I can see all of it’s cracks. But no doubt, that feeling was there and I wish nothing but the best for people who can still feel it.

I have brought you to the seat of sweet [del]music’s[/del] Cafe Society’s throne . . .

(Better fit than MPSIMS.)