I don't think Hillary can win.

[BobLibDem]

@aceplace57

Just like Benghazi. She could have taken responsibility. Yeah we screwed up. Taken a few months of heat and been done with it. But No. She has to claim no knowledge and it wasn’t my fault. Opening up years of investigations and controversy.

And what did the endless Benghazi investigations turn up?

[bup]

Bill Clinton and Barack Obama are great at not seeming to take it personally when Republicans and Fox News make insane accusations and insinuations. They keep on smiling.

If there’s one skill Hillary lacks, it’s the ability to keep a genial poker smile, rather than seeming personally affronted by stupidness.

However, I think 2016 is going to be simply an election of the letter R against the letter D. There’s nothing Hillary can do to attract any Republican, and there’s no realistic Republican nominee who will appeal to even the most middle-of-the-road Democrat.

[John_Mace]

But there are just as many Independents as there are Rs or Ds.

As for the OP, I think it’s more like “I don’t think Hillary could lose”. That’s based on 1) her popularity and 2)the weak GOP field. What’s the saying for her? Short of a dead boy or a live girl?

[silenus]

“Live girl” wouldn’t work either. The Republicans have been trying to cast her as a lesbian for decades now (not that there is anything wrong with that!) It would just confirm what they already thought and cement her appeal to the non-bigoted Independents.

[Master_Wang-Ka]

I dunno. I can think of people over whom I would vote for Hilary in a minute. Any ticket with the following people:

Dick Cheney
Ted Cruz
Anything named Bush
Sarah Palin
The Romneytron 3000
John Boehner
Bobby Jindal
Rick Perry
Mike Pence
Herman Cain

…I could go on, but I won’t. John McCain isn’t on that list; I’d have to think about him. He’s a politician with a politician’s vices, but until he took on Palin as his running mate, he never struck me as unscrupulous, unreasonable, or crazy.

As usual, I anticipate not voting FOR anyone. I anticipate using my vote to help keep the wrong one OUT.

[eschereal]

@Master_Wang-Ka

… John McCain isn’t on that list; I’d have to think about him…

Seriously? Old Wetstart will turn 80-y/o in August of '16, if he were to run, he would have to have an amazingly good running mate.

[BobLibDem]

@Master_Wang-Ka

John McCain isn’t on that list; I’d have to think about him. He’s a politician with a politician’s vices, but until he took on Palin as his running mate, he never struck me as unscrupulous, unreasonable, or crazy.

He didn’t, until he lost. Then he became a bitter old man hell bent on undermining Obama at every opportunity. He’d rather have the nation in flames so that we would blame Obama and regret not electing him than he would have us prosper and have Obama get the credit.

[bup]

@John_Mace

But there are just as many Independents as there are Rs or Ds.

Oh, maybe. When pollsters ask people to self-identify, yes. But there seem to be scarcely few of these magical ideal independents in the real world. A lot of people just keep their partisanship to themselves, I think. And lots of the others are ‘independent’ because they simply can’t name one of the candidates and have no plans to vote.

I think most people who will vote in 2016 are already decided D or R, because it’s really an election on Hillary Y/N, and nothing is going to change between now and then. Just how seethingly furious the Republicans can get their voters.

[Linden_Arden]

@Velocity

If 2016 were Jeb Bush vs. Joe Biden, would it be the most unelectable showdown of presidential candidates in US history?

No.

Jeb is the “smart one” among the Bushes and John Kerry was the most boring candidate in my lifetime. Biden is clearly superior to Kerry.

2004 was truly the worst of the worst.

[Kolak_of_Twilo]

@aceplace57

I’ve reluctantly come to realize Hillary is her own worst enemy. She keeps doing dumb shit like this email server thing.

I think it can be argued in some ways Bill was his own worst enemy. And I say that as one who voted for Bill twice and would’ve voted for him a third time if I had the option. I fully expect to vote for Hilllary if she should be the Democratic nominee.

Having said that, I don’t see why we should expect smarter behavior from her than we got from him. The Gennifer Flowers revelation came out during the campaign, the Republicans had Ken Starr frantically rooting around in the Whitewater BS and dumbass Bill can’t keep his dick in his pants. His arrogance gave them the Right the perfect chance to skewer him. I don’t expect her to be much different.

@Little_Nemo

The right wing media has already used up all its good material on Hillary Clinton and she’s survived it. Twenty years ago, they were accusing her of being a drug lord and a serial killer. Now the best they can come up with is she’s misused her email account.

Let’s hope you’re right. And hope she gets smarter about how she does things.

[Kolak_of_Twilo]

Should be “His arrogance gave the Right the perfect chance to skewer him.”

Damn edit function time out.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@aceplace57

I’ve reluctantly come to realize Hillary is her own worst enemy. She keeps doing dumb shit like this email server thing. She knew Secretary of State was a stepping stone to her next Presidential run. All she had to do was follow the rules. Dot her I’s and cross those T’s. But no, she has to run out and setup a private email server. She’s always letting her paranoia trip her up. Giving evasive answers to easy questions. Creating suspicion where there’s no reason for any to exist.

Just like Benghazi. She could have taken responsibility. Yeah we screwed up. Taken a few months of heat and been done with it. But No. She has to claim no knowledge and it wasn’t my fault. Opening up years of investigations and controversy. Controversy follows Hillary throughout her career. Often because she’s evasive or won’t just come clean and admit a mistake.

I want to be a Hillary supporter. I’ve supported Bill in every state and Federal election. But Hillary keeps tripping over her own feet.

What a bunch of bullshit this post is; wow.

Did you type all that thinking it sounded reasonable, or did you know you were being disingenuous?

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@Master_Wang-Ka

John McCain isn’t on that list; I’d have to think about him. He’s a politician with a politician’s vices, but until he took on Palin as his running mate, he never struck me as unscrupulous, unreasonable, or crazy.

Oh yeah, the way he left his first wife was totally reasonable and scrupulous. :rolleyes:

[DSeid]

@bup

I think most people who will vote in 2016 are already decided D or R …

Always true. Whether they recognize it or not. There are actually only a small percent of people who vote R one Presidential run and D the next (or the converse).

Independent don’t mean a thing if it aint got that swing.

it is hard to find people who have actually switched sides …

Seriously.

“There is a tendency to exaggerate the proportion of independents in the electorate and their impact on the election,” said Alan Abramowitz, professor of political science at Emory University in Atlanta. “When you narrow it down, look at actual voters, the turnout rate among independents is lower. When you look at actual voters and look at those who are truly uncommitted, you find that you’re down to less than 10 percent of the actual voters.”

Let’s face it - results are already written for most states. Maybe 11 states will decide the election and there the two issues are a small fraction of voters who actually do swing between elections and during the course of the campaign and turn out of those who have long ago decided to vote for the party … if they bother to vote.

[China_Guy]

I think her age is going to be a detriment. I’m pretty dang unlikely to vote for a Republican candidate unless one suddenly veers really to the center, is fiscally responsible (vs conservative), etc. But she is currently 67 (dob: Oct 26, 1947).

All things being equal, I’d prefer my President to be around 50 for both cultural and physical reasons. Hillary will be the second oldest president elected and second only to Reagan.

average age is around 55. List of presidents of the United States by age - Wikipedia

[DSeid]

OTOH a key demographic in favor of the GOP in some key swing states is the increasing fraction of the population over 50. Arguing that she is too old could backfire with that group. The GOP loses the Rust Belt swings (and they cannot win the election without them) if it pisses off the seniors with agist rhetoric…

[adaher]

@Little_Nemo

Seriously? I thought the reason is pretty obvious. The Clintons are Democrats and conservatives don’t want them in office. Hillary used to be a club they could hit Bill with. But since 2000, she’s being attacked in her own right.

Which, as I said in the past, is one of Clinton’s hidden strengths. The right wing media has already used up all its good material on Hillary Clinton and she’s survived it. Twenty years ago, they were accusing her of being a drug lord and a serial killer. Now the best they can come up with is she’s misused her email account.

If anyone other than Clinton runs in 2016, the right wing press will be able to throw fresh mud at them.

The difference is that if it’s someone else it will be the NY Post, the Boston Herald, and the Washington Times throwing mud at them.

If it’s Clinton, the NY Times, the Boston Globe, and the Washington Post will be doing it.

If you think that Clinton’s problem is the right wing press, you’re ignoring reality. The right-wing press hasn’t had to do any work in 2015 because the mainstream media is carrying all their water for them. So unless the entire media has turned right-wing, the Clinton scandals are real.

[GIGObuster]

@adaher

The difference is that if it’s someone else it will be the NY Post, the Boston Herald, and the Washington Times throwing mud at them.

If it’s Clinton, the NY Times, the Boston Globe, and the Washington Post will be doing it.

If you think that Clinton’s problem is the right wing press, you’re ignoring reality. The right-wing press hasn’t had to do any work in 2015 because the mainstream media is carrying all their water for them. So unless the entire media has turned right-wing, the Clinton scandals are real.

:rolleyes:

The mainstream is not really liberal to begin with and most of the scandals are not real or exaggerated.

[Little_Nemo]

@adaher

If you think that Clinton’s problem is the right wing press, you’re ignoring reality. The right-wing press hasn’t had to do any work in 2015 because the mainstream media is carrying all their water for them. So unless the entire media has turned right-wing, the Clinton scandals are real.

Sites like the Drudge Report or Gawker “break” the story. The conservative media pundits repeat it and build up some buzz. When that happens the mainstream media follows along and reports the fact that accusations have been made as the story.

The email “story” is a good example of this. There’s no actual story for a real newspaper to report. Clinton used a private email account, which is not illegal and which past Secretaries of State have also done. But the Gawker ran it as a story and suggested that it was somehow wrong without really explaining why.

Then people like you come along and say it doesn’t matter whether or not she did anything wrong. Because the real story is her refusal to admit she did something wrong.

[adaher]

@Linden_Arden

2004 was truly the worst of the worst.

I endorse this statement wholeheartedly. It will hopefully be a long time before we’re presented with such awful choices again.