I don't understand holocaust denial

Great Debates
221

I dont really care if they died of gas or disease or shooting the point is that millions of Jews and others died. I dont know what 100% of the truth is but the fact is millions of Jews used to live in places like Germany. They were demonized, excluded, and later removed and shoved into concentration camps. Millions never returned. The Nazis and all the other anti-semite supporters were scum to me including the ones today who are living in stolen Jewish property.

What, you think Anne Frank went into hiding for the fun of it? You think Corrie Ten Boomsat back and watched her father and sister die for daring to rescue Jews was some sort of silly mistake?

In Denmark when the Nazis demanded the Jews wear the yellow star practically the whole country including the king put them on. Later when Jews were deported the Danish government demanded and got many back. Was that a misunderstanding?

222

No it wouldn’t, since the vast majority of the evidence of the Holocaust is reliable and corroborated.

Whether true or not, this does nothing to discount the massive amounts of evidence, including the recorded words of Himmler explicitly discussing the extermination of Jewish men, women, and children.

Cite. Every one of your assertions in this thread has been so suspect that you should have a cite for each one – your assertions have been that inaccurate.

More distracting bullshit – there’s a mountain of evidence, including confessions and eyewitness statements, physical evidence, and recorded words of Nazi leaders, for the Holocaust. Whatever few statistics show that in some cases not all Jews were immediately exterminated do nothing to refute this mountain of evidence.

If you actually believe the stuff you’re saying, then you were lied to – someone gave you worthless information (like the laughable bullshit about the German words for exterminate).

223

Wow, 5 pages and a lot of words.
Let me explain it all in three.

It’s the JEWS !!!

224

I do not agree with the contention that “Jews are monopolizing the Holocaust” (as some put it). The Holocaust is often treated by historians as principally affecting Jews…because Jews were the main target.

“Without detracting in any way from the gravity of the crimes perpetrated against all victims of Nazism, it seems that major distinctions exist between their Jewish and non-Jewish victims:
Only the Jews were singled out for total destruction. From the ideological principles formulated in Mein Kampf to the original anti-Jewish legislation in Germany of the 1930s, the Jews were singled out as the focus of German wrath. According to the Commentaries to the German Racial Laws of 1936:
“The Blood Protection Law deals with the segregation of Jewish and German blood from the biological point of view… As an acute danger threatened the German people from Jewry alone, the law aims primarily at the prevention of further mixing of blood with the Jews.”
The government-sponsored pogroms in November 1938 did not include Polish nationals or businesses or Catholic churches. Mass Jewish emigration was Germany’s goal at that point. The formulation of the “Final Solution” to the Jewish problem in January 1942 did not treat the Polish or Russian ethnic problem or outline worldwide extermination of homosexuals, but dealt exclusively with the anticipated extermination of the 11 million Jews of Europe. At no point did any plan for the total murder of any other population exist formally or informally other than of the Jews.”

Further, while it is natural for any ethnic group to be preoccupied with its own history, Jewish groups do not minimize the sufferings of others in the Holocaust. And while Jews have historically been in the forefront of urging study and remembrance of the Holocaust, there is nothing to stop other affected groups and nationalities from similar activism.

225

I ask the holocaust deniers again, do you think Anne Frank and her family went into hiding for 2 years for the fun of it?

Ok, yes. She died at Auschwitz but not in the gas chambers. She died of typhus. But the fact is if she hadn’t been put in there in the first place she would not have died at all.

226

I rather hope that you did find Chen019’s website. At least that would mean the ranks of Holocaust deniers is smaller by one. But I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it turns out to be plagiarism. Holocaust denial is, after all, based on a fundamental (and deeply abhorrent) dishonesty in interpreting the historical record. People who follow this ideology are not, I would imagine, terribly scrupulous when it comes to plagiarism.

227

Not true. It’s ridden with outrageous claims that have subsequently been accepted to be false. And they always happen in the direction of spreading war propaganda.

Look at Buchenwald

**And yet this turned out to be nonsense. **

As noted above, the veracity of those comments is dubious and it is contradicted by the inmate records and other orders to provide medical assistance to jewish prisoners. All of which is completely at odds with an extermination programme.

You need a citation for the claim that according to the official story, from spring 1942 at Auschwitz all Jews unable to work were gassed upon arrival without previous registration.? Ok, try the Holocaust Encyclopedia, which relevantly provides:

The confessions were extracted by torture, threats against family members, mock trials where death sentences were pronounced etc. They have no credibility.

What physical evidence are you referring to? The physical evidence is that the claims regarding gassing in Germany were false.

The evidence regarding Auschwitz is that there were significant efforts to reduce the typhus epidemics and zyklon was used to disenfect clothing & bedding in small delousing facilities. There is certainly no physical evidence to support the claim that people were gassed there, quite the opposite. Even basic things like the fact the doors in Auschwitzwere made out of simple wood - such doors, especially when opening outwardly, could never resist a panicking crowd of several hundred people. They were also not gas tight.

228

I think you’re confusing Rudolf with the polish team who chose a method of analysis which excluded the detection of Iron Blue compounds? Iron Blue (Ferro-Ferri-Cyanide) is an very stable pigment. It is insoluble in water and resistant to acid rain.

This is vividly demonstrated by the outer walls of the delousing facilities in Birkenau (those buildings have no gutters, and thus a lot of rain flows down the walls). These walls were exposed to acid rain for more than 50 years, yet they are covered with Iron Blue residue.

For those who find the chemistry tedious, I’d recommend some of the questions posed by David Cole following his visit to the camps in Poland:

229

Then where are the mass recantations? Why aren’t the purported mass murderers standing up for themselves now? Sure some might be intimidated by for instance German laws against holocaust denial, but they could have their statements published elsewhere. Some might not want to draw attention to themselves, but purported Auschwitz-guards have been found out and put to trial now and again for decades, what would they lose by explaining how things “really” were?

Or do you think this confession last year, and similar confessions over the last 70 years were also extracted by torture?

230

Typical bait-and-switch by Cole. He focuses on Krema I, Krema II, and Krema III, ignoring Krema IV and Krema V.
Krema I was a post-war reconstruction, (as he jubilantly declared in one of his videos), so evidence would be lacking, in any case.
Krema II and Krema III, having been dynamited are extremely difficult to get at. He presents no evidence that he has actually gotten into the gas chambers and his claim about blue walls is directly contradicted by other witnesses such as the author of this tape, (at 3:04).

Rudolf’s claims (along with his admission that forensic analysis is inadequate to support his position) have already been addressed by Green and McCarthy.
Rudolf:

So, starting with a claim that the science demonstrated that all the eyewitness accounts had to be false, he is now claiming that the science cannot actually do what he claimed for it and is relying on reconstructed “testimony” from people such as Faurisson who has manufactured nearly all his claims.

(Amusingly, as the article indicates, Rudolf is not all that honest, to begin with, on several occasions using sock puppets as authorities to support his own position.)

231

Weak distracting bullshit, since there are orders of magnitude more reliable and corroborated reports and evidence than a few that might be suspect.

Your criticism was laughable and shows a pathetic lack of knowledge of the German language. It wasn’t contradicted by anything – you just distract by pointing to some instances in which Jews might not have been immediately killed… that doesn’t affect all the other pieces of proof of a plan put in place, and executed, to kill Jews, based on the mountains of other evidence and Himmler’s own words.

This does nothing to counter the mountains of evidence and Himmler’s own words. Nothing but more distraction. “Ignore the mountain of evidence over there – I have some crumbs here!” Not going to work except with people inclined to view Jews as evil or liars.

Cite for each confession. Every single confession, by every single Nazi and other collaborator involved.

The Holocaust amounted to much, much more than just “gassing in Germany”. Even if there is reasonable doubt for a few claims about the Holocaust, that does nothing for the mountain of other evidence of a massive program designed and run by the Nazis to kill Jews in Europe.

Just more pathetic distraction from this mountain of evidence.

Cite for the doors (the original doors, mind you – not the mock ups from later). Whatever efforts about typhus and delousing might have existed do nothing to contradict the mountains of evidence, including Himmler’s own instructions about exterminating Jewish men, women, and children, for the Holocaust.

Your efforts at distraction are just weak hand-waving.

232

The typhus stuff is false for many reasons, but the most visible and visceral is the extreme starvation showed by the stacked bodies in photographs that supposedly died from typhus. Typhus doesn’t cause such an appearance – only starvation does.

There are numerous mass graves that have been identified and excavated, filled with bone ash, bone fragments, and chemical residue of body liquidation. In addition, there are many eyewitnesses and photographs that testify to the many dead bodies disposed of, most notably by the Sonderkommandos.

Claims that Auschwitz facilities could not have included gas chambers is always based on the rebuilt mockups by the Soviets, not the original facilities.

That a few witnesses might have lied or said suspect things about the Holocaust does nothing to invalidate the thousands upon thousands of witnesses with corroborated claims.

Overall, the claims of the deniers remain as weak and pathetic as they have always been – ignoring the vast majority of evidence, and nitpicking or making false claims about the rest.

233

I’ll notice that Chen019 is continuing to ignore particular pieces of evidence like this report in which Commander SS-Standartenführer Karl Jäger documented over 100,000 Jews and others murdered in Lithuania by Einsatzkommando III with date, location, and number of men, women and children killed, writing “I can state today that the goal of solving the Jewish problem in Lithuania has been reached by Einsatzkommando 3. There are no more Jews in Lithuania, apart from working Jews and their families.”

234

Where are you getting this notion? Auschwitz was established as a work camp and even as extermination overtook and surpassed the work camp as it primary activity, there remained a need to support workers and to prevent contagious diseases from spreading into the guard population.

I note that your citation makes no reference to registrations, at all. Nothing in that citation precludes the act of takings the name, age, sex, and “crime” (being Jewish or Roma, Communist or mentally retarded, etc.) of people as they were gathered to be sent to the gas chambers. “Directly” means without being housed for some number of days. Anything beyond that is your conjecture.

This claim is absurd, given that it has already been debunked, previously, in this very thread. The actual extermination chambers were blown up by the Nazis as the Soviet Army approached. The “simple wood” doors were not on the extermination chambers, but on actual delousing rooms. The extermination chambers were under ground with much heavier doors. This is unremarkable bait-and-switch nonsense. Further, we have testimony, (in the video previously linked), that the walls of the underground gas chambers showed the blue of prussic acid–in contradiction to the claims of Rudolf.

235

QFT

236

Who cares? Dead is dead. Maybe your right. Maybe no gas chambers. But it doesnt matter because the people still died.

There would not have been a typhus epidemic or a need for delousing in the first place if they hadnt been bringing people in. Why the hell did the Germans go thru all the trouble, wasting precious resources, of taking Anne Frank’s family all the way from Holland to Poland? The reason was they were Jews and the Nazi’s wanted them all dead.

237

Sure, and the evidence regarding Auschwitz is that there were significant parallel efforts to reduce the prisoner population using zyklon as well.

It’s a versatile poison.

238

Using the standards of evidence Chen019 uses, I can “prove” the Vietnam War never happened.

239

Heck, using his standards of proof along with his logic and methods of collecting facts, we can prove that WWII never happened.

240

The evangelical racialist is also a holocaust denier; how can this be a surprise to you? Just swap a science-based race conspiracy/fixation with a history-based race conspiracy/fixation.