I Don't Understand People That Take Their Dogs With Them EVERYWHERE They Go.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
103

::sigh::

I’m sorry. This post is going to be very long. I have been nursing it for three days now. I just have to get some things off my chest.

When I read the original post by FoieGrasIsEvil, I felt I just had to respond. I composed what, I thought, was a light-hearted and jocular response from someone who does take his dogs almost everywhere.

I lived in Florida for forty years, from when I was five. Most of that time, until I moved to Colorado, I lived with my parents on a two-acre homesite with a chain-link fence. We always had dogs, but there was no place to take them, and they were happy in the yard.

My wife and I married relatively late, and tried to have a family, but it didn’t work out. After two miscarriages, and with our advancing age, we called it quits.

We always had cats (usually two, or one if one died) but it was not until my wife semi-retired after teaching for thirty years that we decided to get a dog. For two years we researched adopting a [COLOR=#0000ff]Great Pyrenees. These are absolutely beautiful dogs, with a regal, calm bearing. Very large, about 100 pounds average. We specifically wanted a female puppy, as females generally have better temperament and fewer health problems. The first breeder we negotiated with had already promised one female from her dog’s litter to another family, but said we could have the second female puppy. Of course, the litter was five male, one female.[/COLOR]

We were first in line with a different breeder a year later, and eagerly anticipated our new puppy. Unfortunately, about a month before the puppies were due, the mother got very sick. The breeder took her to the vet, and they found ovarian cancer. The only way to save the life of the dog was to have a hysterectomy, sacrificing the puppies. I guess it was just not meant to be.

My wife grew up with a female pedigreed Siberian Husky, which her family acquired when she was twelve, and the dog lived to be seventeen years old. It was in otherwise good health, but got a cancer in her mouth that eventually took her rather quickly. She was very fond of that dog, and Huskies were always very near the top of our list of dog breeds to adopt.

So, we looked online and found a Husky breeder here in Denver. We called the number, and they said, yes, they have one puppy left to adopt out, and it was female, ten weeks old. We drove over, and absolutely fell in love with her. We paid the family, and drove off with our new puppy. Two years researching Pyrenees and we get a Husky after 15 minutes search. We went to a pet store to get a leash, collar and other supplies. We then drove to Aspen Grove, where we knew they advertised a pet-friendly atmosphere to start to socialize our puppy. We had gotten puppy treats, and gave treats to people to give to our dog, so she would make a positive association with meeting strangers. Puppies are always cute, and many, many people came up to us to see our puppy and pet her. She is so pretty, with a series of “spots” or “freckles” down her nose, rather than a stripe or blaze as most other Huskies have. We call her “Shena Punum”, a Yiddish expression meaning “Pretty Face”, since my wife is Jewish.

We took her everywhere with us, but, since we also have a life, sometimes she just has to stay home and entertain herself. When she was nearly a year old, we decided to get a second Husky to keep Shena company. We looked online again, and there was a breeder in Cortez, down by the Four Corners area of Colorado (Four Corners is where the borders of the states of Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona and Utah come together. You can stand in one spot and be simultaneously standing in four states. Kinda cool.) We drove down when the litter was three weeks old, to pick out which one we wanted. Shena came with us to help us pick out her baby sister. When the litter was eight weeks old, the breeder met us half-way, in Buena Vista, so we did not have to cross the state diagonally both ways. When we got her home, we thought of what to name the new puppy. My father’s heritage is Greek, so we called her “Calliste,” which is derived from a Greek word for “Most Beautiful.” The two of them have been absolutely best friends since, and behave just like true sisters (with all that implies, spats included!) Many people ask us if they are from the same litter, they look and act so much alike.

We don’t have any children, so our dogs are the focus of our love. Huskies, like most dogs, are very intelligent, empathetic creatures. When we are out on a walk, if we encounter a wheel-chair-bound person who wishes to pet our dogs, they instinctively sit quietly with their head on the person’s knee, waiting to be pet. We did not teach them this. Their intelligence is a two-edged sword, however. They learn things very rapidly, but they get bored very rapidly, too! We are not professional animal trainers, but the basics are very intuitive and easy to master. Positive Reinforcement and lots of training time works wonders. They have mastered the basic obedience commands, like “Sit”, “Stay”, “Down”, “Come” and “Shake” (their paw). We have gone through the AKC [COLOR=#0000ff]Canine Good Citizen program. We have worked with the Therapy Dogs International organization, but our dogs do not have a 100% reliable recall (“Come” command.) They do, however, on many occasions go to visit shut-ins, such as nursing and retirement homes, regular and children’s hospitals and other places where the people have determined that interacting with dogs can have a positive, healthy impact on those types of people.[/COLOR]

We have been living in Colorado for over ten years now, and frequently (especially when the weather is nice, which it almost always is here) take day trips up into the mountains. Denver is located on what is referred to locally as “The Eastern Plains.” It is a short, half-hour drive up into the “Foothills,” or an hour or two to get to the “Continental Divide.” Further out, you get to the “Western Slope.”

A favored destination is the town of [COLOR=#0000ff]Leadville, which advertises itself as “North America’s highest incorporated city” at an elevation of 10,430 feet. It is an historic mining town, with early-to-mid nineteenth century architecture and Victorian homes. The main street has many shops and boutiques with a decidedly western flair. There is a scenic mountain train, originally built to haul the ore from the several mines in the area of Leadville (it was a mining town originally in the nineteenth century) but is now just used to take tourists up for some spectacular sight-seeing in the highest area in the North American mountains (Mount Elbert, the highest peak in NA, at 14,440 feet elevation, is just outside Leadville.) The train allows dogs to ride, and of the hundred or so passengers each time we have gone, there are at least a dozen or more families with dogs on the train.[/COLOR]

Maybe it’s the mountain pioneer spirit, or the independence of western folk, but many of the shop owners both have dogs themselves, usually in the shop with them, and allow patrons to bring their dogs into the store.

But the exact same thing happens at all the other western towns we visit. When Telluride has the Hot Air Balloon regatta or Breckenridge has the Snow Sculpture competition (they take a form that’s 10ftx10ftx10ft and pack it with snow and, after the form is removed, different artists and organizations carve some fantastic art into the dozens of blocks of snow) or Buena Vista or Steamboat Springs or Grand Lake or Manitou Springs (a quaint artist community at the base of Pike’s Peak, and there’s a paved road to the top of the 14,110-foot peak, and yes, they allow dogs) or Evergreen or Estes Park (at the main entrance to Rocky Mountain National Park, and for those who have ever seen The Shining with Jack Nicholson, the Overlook Hotel was inspired by the Stanley Hotel in Estes Park, built by F. O. Stanley, of Stanley steamer fame,) we take the dogs for a walk through the main street business district where there are always dozens of locals and visitors walking their dogs, enjoying the weather, and shopping.

Here in the [COLOR=#0000ff]Metro Denver area, the same spirit seems to be present in the different communities we frequent. Encompassing seven counties from north of Boulder to south of Castle Rock, there are over a million households with nearly three million population. A significant fraction of these people have dogs, and enjoy taking their dogs with them as they go about their business. Shop owners, proprietors, and property managers have embraced the spirit of the community and have elected to make shopping available to patrons who wish to bring their dogs with them as they shop. Not every store allows dogs, but enough do to make it easy, for those so inclined, to make a day of shopping, dining and recreation taking their dogs with them, and enjoy a full day together.[/COLOR]

104

I am really having trouble understanding the vitriolic hate that permeates so many of the posts in this thread. In post #44, I made my first entry, where, if you care to note in the first line I said,

But that didn’t stop people from making outrageous remarks like

Try the very first line of my very first post.

Just because I never said I bring my dog uninvited and specifically stated how I thought people who do are rude?

And this whole entitlement nonsense, where did I ever say anything about entitlement? I stated, very plainly, right from the start and over and over throughout this thread, that we take our dogs where they are welcomed, either with explicit “Dogs Welcome” signage or the express approval of the proprietor.

In my first post:

And in post #49:

And in post #59:

And in post #66:

And in post #68:

And

I would sincerely ask that these people would actually click the link in that post:

[/COLOR]

In post #77, Gray Ghost posted:

…and in post #79, I quoted that with the observation:

And in post #82:

And

And

In my first post (#44) I said we bring our dogs with us to restaurants which allow us to sit out on the patio or sidewalk:

That has not stopped posters from blasting me for taking my dogs* inside* the restaurants:

But, even restaurants do allow service dogs inside. If there was, in fact, some horrible dog-borne disease that these animals carry with them, even the Americans with Disabilities Act could not trump the rights of patrons to eat in a disease-free environment. But there seems to be a startling lack of occurrences of this pervasive dog-disease. The media, being rabid sensationalists, would be all over the story like stink on shit if a connection had been shown between dogs sitting on a sidewalk and people contracting “poison dog germs.”

And, although dog bites are far too common an occurrence in this country, why has the media not reported any significant rate of bites on patrons and employees at stores which allow customers to bring their dogs with them? I am not trying to imply that it does not happen—but that the proprietors who allow dogs have made the determination that their liability is not so great as to preclude admitting dogs onto the premises.

As I have repeatedly said, we only bring our dogs with us where the store owner/manager/proprietor has specifically and explicitly indicated they were welcome. If there a possibility of damage to merchandise, or liability due to attacks on patrons or employees, or health problems from allergic reactions, these businesses could easily have, and enforce, a “No Dogs” policy. The fact that they do not, and to the contrary, post “Dogs Welcome” signs in the window, shows me that, in a strictly business cost-accounting, they have determined that allowing dogs increases revenue more than not allowing dogs.

105

I also stirred up a shit-storm by stating I preferentially do business with shops, stores and restaurants which allow us to bring our dogs. I stated:

And was met with the response:

I noted in post #79 that this attitude seemed a trifle disingenuous, as obviously, “…to punish a business owner for setting a policy that makes sense for their business and that they choose to enforce unilaterally rather than attempt to make a decision based on each individual situation” is “ridiculous”.

And yet, that has not stopped posters here from such observations as:

…and

The fact that I take my dogs with me, only where I have positive proof that they are welcome, and have stated and re-stated that contention throughout this thread in response to people who insist that I am forcing my dogs on people in areas where they are not welcome, is “dismissive, snarky and narrow-minded”?!?

But the part that really galls me is when I take shit because I mentioned that some people have a totally unfounded fear of dogs, which causes them to suffer serious loss of ability to function. That this is true, I attempted to convey by quoting a letter to the editor in the Denver Post in which the writer stated that “[m]y son…is barred from most festivals because of his absolute terror of dogs. [Quoting from memory, I mistakenly posted “A woman claimed that her son was ‘terrified’ of dogs”—a distinction, I believe, without a difference.]” If a phobia (whether fear of dogs, snakes, spiders, lightning or whatever) causes you to stay at home, afraid to venture outside because you might encounter the object of your irrational phobia, you have a serious condition, and getting professional help is strongly indicated. This was met with,

How, exactly, is quoting someone’s words “dismissive and condescending”? How is my post a “smug dismissal”? I was quoting material printed in the newspaper, not using [COLOR=#0000ff]scare quotes.[/COLOR]

The letter writer was not, to the best of my knowledge, a member of the City Council or County Commission of the City and County of Denver, and was not a legislator of the State of Colorado, nor was any of her family. The clear intent of her letter was to have an ordinance passed restricting the ability of dog owners to have their dogs “presen[t] in a public place.” [This is another use of direct quotes, not “scare quotes” to convey a “smug dismissal.”] It was to this clearly stated affront to every responsible pet owner that I responded.

If I take my dogs with me to a publicly accessible place, it is with the full knowledge and consent of the property owner/manager/proprietor. If they feel there might be some liability due to aggression, or damaged merchandise, or allergies, they could easily not post “Dogs Welcome” signs in the windows. If someone has a phobia about dogs, to the point that it seriously impacts their ability to function in public, it seems that the person with the phobia should seek help for a debilitating condition. I am fully aware that some people are afraid of dogs. But when they shop in stores which have a clearly marked “Dogs Welcome” policy, it seems to me that the onus of dealing with the situation falls on them, as there are many other places to shop which do not allow dogs.

106

Whoa…

107

Hey,

Every hour he spent typing that is an hour he wasn’t taking his dog children somewhere out in public…

108

The thing is, service dogs are trained to not socialize when they’re on the job. I’ve seen a couple of service dogs in restaurants, and if their person is seated, then the dog is lying down, out of the way. In fact, I will hardly notice when there’s a service dog in the eatery, and they usually cause much, much less fuss than the average child.

BUT. Most people don’t train their dogs that well. Most people will let their dogs (and their kids) run up to other people and bother those other people. I’m not saying that YOU do this. I’m sure that YOUR dogs are wonderful to be around. But that’s why I’m wary about dogs, even though I like them. I used to frequent a bookstore that had a shop dog, and I’d greet the owner, then greet the dog. The dog was wonderful, and was one of the reasons I liked to shop there. But there are a lot of badly socialized dogs that are taken everywhere.

109

Bravo DHMO! I have stayed out of this thread simply because I don’t have the energy to argue. But you said it all, beautifully.

I just don’t understand why the simple fact that some of us love our dogs and enjoy their companionship brngs out such hatred among others. It boggles my mind.

110

And there are a lot of badly socialized children that are taken everywhere, even into places where they are not really allowed and definitely not appreciated. Yet the rights of parents trump the rights of everyone else, while those of us who love dogs are subject to ignorance like “rolling in their own poo”, segregation and loss of rights.

Just because most people allow their dogs to run up to other people shouldn’t mean that I should end up with about a tenth of the rights that the average parent of a screaming brat has.

111

When I was a kid in the 80’s most of the neighborhood dogs including ours, lived outside, in a dog house. What the heck has happened to people nowadays!! When I married my husband, he was the owner of “rescued” indoor dog with poor social habits, but that eventually calmed down over the years. When we were expecting our first born human baby, we decided to have Christmas at our home, I was 9 mths pregors. We invited both our immediate human families. We kindly put our own dog in a kennel, as to not cause him or our guests any undue stress of a full small house. First, my husband’s uncle asked if he could bring his out of control vegetarian (yes vegetarian) hound dog, after knowing we were putting our own dog in a kennel. But, at least he asked, and we uncomfortably had to decline his request. (Unbenounced to us, he left the poor thing in his car the whole time…how is that responsible!?). Then, as the guests began to arrive, here shows sister inlaw with their bulldog child!!! The dog was completely disruptive for the entire evening (0 training), and had full rein of our 4 story town home. During a discussion with my brother I referred to the animal as “the dog”. My brother inlaw took offence to that and rudely interjected, “the dog has a name you know!”. I completely regret not going ape s*** on him at the time cause my pregnancy was a good excuse, but even in my altered state of mind I had more sense than this dog parent idiot. At the very least they could have brought their kennel for their dog to stay in. The following day my husband and I spent most of our time cleaning the bull dog fur from every corner of our home. Unless someone requests that we bring our dog, we assume not to bring him. At our daughters baptism restaurant reception, of which my sister inlaw is the godmother, my brother-in law left early because his dog was home alone, the entire event only was 5 hours!! Whats next doggy nannys? They think their dog is great around kids, but I’ve actually seen him growl and lunge towards children, and they think it’s no big deal. They have no self esteem, and no respect for animals. Pets are of a different species, with diff needs and instincts, regardless of your selfish need to mentally distort reality. And yes, this obsessiveness for pets does negatively effect other humans, especially family and worsely your own pet!

112

My sister-in-law takes her parrot with her everywhere she goes. But she leaves the 3 dogs at home.

113

Why do you seem outraged at the dog’s diet?

So should we refer to your impending baby as “the child,” despite your pointing out that “the child has a name, you know,” you’ll be understanding when we go completely ape**** on you?

'Cause it could happen.

114

:rolleyes: 'cos dogs are PEOPLE!

115

Only if you allow it.

116

I don’t understand what you’re saying. Certainly a dog knows his or her name and a new baby does not. If I don’t name the baby in conversation, it has nothing to do with how the baby is treated. But it would offend the adult I’m talking to.

My point is that her refusal to name the dog has nothing to do with how to treat dogs properly, it was merely an attempt to provoke the people she wanted to “go ape**** on.”

Your response, coming so quickly and glibly without really understanding my point, is mostly reflex, but might indicate you feel demeaned in some way by the practice of naming companion animals.

117

My dog isn’t an accessory, he’s my sidekick, I’ll take him wherever I can.

118

5 hour baptism ceremony reception? You better bet I’d use my dog as an excuse to go home early.

Seriously, though, depending on the time of day, 5 hours might be too long to leave a dog alone. Dogs get on schedules; they expect to be let out at certain times. I can easily leave my dogs from 6pm to midnight (or later) because that’s not “their time” to go out. 7am to noon, on the other hand, would be a disaster.

119

I missed that. A FIVE-HOUR reception – following an event that lasted some time itself? Yeah, if I didn’t have a dog I’d chew my own arm off or something.

Plus travel time home. Coincidentally or not, 5 hours is our rule of thumb for how long we’ll leave the dogs.

120

zombie or no

why can’t people with a DVR or VCR, in the slow mode which give 6 hours time, just put on some episodes of Lassie or Adventures of Rin Tin Tin.

121

Any adult who is offended because someone refers to their pet by their generic name rather than specifics…isn’t much of an adult, IMO.

No, I get that, but it should never have worked because who the hell gets offended by that?

I get your point, but I don’t think you got mine - and no, I have named pets, I even put a lot of thought into naming them, and I refer to them by their names. But if my Dad or friends call DibbleDog* “your dog”, I don’t go apeshit on them. I very well might get snippy if they kept referring to KidDibble** as “your kid”.

  • Not her real name
    ** Not her real name either.
122

Some clarification, as the details have overwhelmed some dog parents…
The church ceremony was a private one, so it lasted no longer than twenty minutes, drive to restaurant, 10 min, meal, conversation 3 hours tops. The in laws wanted show up at our home prior to event, and they decided to show about an hour and a half early. All this is beside the point. You are going to an event, of which you have comitted to play a rather significant part, doesn’t happen all the time. But many events will happen, weddings, birthdays, parties where your dog actually may not get invited. I know this is fact, as I too have a dog, and a child. HIRE A KENNEL OR SITTER!!!