I don't understand the parable of the Ten Minas.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

Is that what God does, though? Does God take what he did not earn?

If the king was God, then God gave an order to kill anyone who doesn’t “want me to reign over them.” Who was he giving the order TO? Who is supposed to do the killing?

[John_Mace]

It says that no institution is too big to fail and that everyone should be have access to good quality health care.

[mswas]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

Is that what God does, though? Does God take what he did not earn?

Impossibility. God can neither take nor earn what is already his.

If the king was God, then God gave an order to kill anyone who doesn’t “want me to reign over them.” Who was he giving the order TO? Who is supposed to do the killing?

The faithful to the faithless I suppose.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

So you believe that Jesus ordered his followers to kill unbelievers?

[Captain_Amazing]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

If the king is supposed to be Jesus in this parable, then what are we to make of his order to kill everybody who “did not want me to reign over them?” Who is this order addressed to? If the King is not Jesus, who is he?

If the king is Jesus/God, then it’s calling God an asshole who gives orders to murder infidels. If the king is not God, then all the usuual attempts at interpretation are out the window.

Well, yes, and? It’s saying that when the Kingdom of God comes, God’s enemies will be destroyed. That fits with some of Jesus’s other parables. Look at Matthew 13:

He set another parable before them, saying, "The Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field, but while people slept, his enemy came and sowed darnel also among the wheat, and went away. But when the blade sprang up and brought forth fruit, then the darnel appeared also.

The servants of the householder came and said to him, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where did this darnel come from?’ "He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’

"The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and gather them up?’

"But he said, ‘No, lest perhaps while you gather up the darnel, you root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest time I will tell the reapers,

First, gather up the darnel, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn."‘ . . .

Then Jesus sent the multitudes away, and went into the house. His disciples came to him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the darnel of the field.” He answered them,

"He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the children of the kingdom;and the darnel are the children of the evil one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels.

As therefore the darnel is gathered up and burned with fire; so will it be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and those who do iniquity, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

Or Matt. 25:

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. . . . Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

Matt 25 also includes the parable of the Talents which is like the parable of the Minas, and the parable of the Bridesmaids, which is a similar story about how those who are ready for the Kingdom of Heaven will be rewarded and those who aren’t will be punished.

Or Luke 13:

Then he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree, planted in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any. So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’

" ‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’ "

Or Luke 12, for that matter:

The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

[kaylasdad99]

I suppose it’s confusing as far as it goes (and as a kid I NEVER heard the version that involved killing a bunch of protesters), but it’s still not as confusing as the one where he praises the guy who gives away his master’s stuff because he knows he’s about to get fired.

[Captain_Amazing]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

So you believe that Jesus ordered his followers to kill unbelievers?

I think it’s more likely that Jesus believed that unbelievers/the enemies of God and Jesus would be killed by God when the Kingdom of God was established.

[billfish678]

If a parable can be interpreted in more than one way, with those ways being conflicting in nature, much less some interpretations sending a “bad” message…AND it takes expert opinion to explain it…the parable sucks IMO.

[Blaster_Master]

The inpretation I learned when I was young was very much like what Blake described and it’s one that still makes the most sense to me. I’ve seen people attach it to tithing, but I think that’s a tenuous connection at best.

@Superfluous_Parentheses

One thing you’re missing is that it’s painfully obvious that the recipients are not given gifts. They are also not expected to do anything like “give to the poor”. They have a loan forced upon them and ordered to make more money for the king.

I don’t think that’s a fair comparison at all. What is said, copying directly from Captain Amazing’s post, is ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’ I don’t see where exactly you’re getting the forced part. They’re servants, just as we are of God. Just as they’re given money to serve their king, we’re given blessings and we’re supposed to use them to serve God.

@rivulus

What seems blindingly obvious to me is if you put Jesus in the role of the king, you make Jesus out as a big prick. An outsider who is swooping in and taking power against the desires of the people he’s ruling. Do you really see Jesus as such a jackass?

Except that it says that the people don’t want him to be king, not that he was a prick. Aren’t we taught in many other places about how few people will actually accept his teachings and make it into heaven?

Exactly! God/Jesus is showing up uninvited, giving out a bunch of orders, and then punishing people when they don’t obey and make him a profit. Again, a big celestial jackass. Of course, that is his M.O. at various points in the Bible. Particularly the Old Testament. But I don’t see how that adds up to the compassionate Christian god people like to argue for. That’s where the confusion comes in.

The point, as I see it, is that God is the rightful king, even if many of his subjects fear and reject him. Jesus was crucified by the very people he came to save. The third servant feared the king, having decided that the king didn’t deserve the his wealth and was a harsh man. Yet, the king wasn’t harsh to the servants who did as they were asked; in fact, they were rewarded far and above what they earned for him; that is, surely a city is worth far more than a mina.

So, the king is beyond generous to those who served him well, but he will punish those who do not or reject him.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Captain Amazing

I think it’s more likely that Jesus believed that unbelievers/the enemies of God and Jesus would be killed by God when the Kingdom of God was established.

No. The King specifically orders his servants to do the killing. “Bring them here and kill them in front of me.” He’s definitely telling others to do it.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Blaster_Master

The inpretation I learned when I was young was very much like what Blake described and it’s one that still makes the most sense to me. I’ve seen people attach it to tithing, but I think that’s a tenuous connection at best.

I don’t think that’s a fair comparison at all. What is said, copying directly from Captain Amazing’s post, is ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’ I don’t see where exactly you’re getting the forced part. They’re servants, just as we are of God. Just as they’re given money to serve their king, we’re given blessings and we’re supposed to use them to serve God.

Except that it says that the people don’t want him to be king, not that he was a prick. Aren’t we taught in many other places about how few people will actually accept his teachings and make it into heaven?

The point, as I see it, is that God is the rightful king, even if many of his subjects fear and reject him. Jesus was crucified by the very people he came to save. The third servant feared the king, having decided that the king didn’t deserve the his wealth and was a harsh man. Yet, the king wasn’t harsh to the servants who did as they were asked; in fact, they were rewarded far and above what they earned for him; that is, surely a city is worth far more than a mina.

So, the king is beyond generous to those who served him well, but he will punish those who do not or reject him.

The King admits he’s an asshole who takes what he did not earn.

He also orders his servants to kill anyone who won’t accept him as a king. If Jesus is the king, then Jesus is telling somebody to kill unbelievers. Who is supposed to do the killing?

[mswas]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

So you believe that Jesus ordered his followers to kill unbelievers?

That’s a tough question and I’d need more context about the situation. It’s really hard to tell when Jesus is being nasty to ‘the man’ and trying to showcase how cruel this despot is, or when he’s trying to show himself as a King. I guess when he comes back with his Kingdom established he did seem to be threatening that all who stood in his way would be killed.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

But he’s ordering OTHERS to do the killing in this case.

I don’t think the king is supposed to be God (and certainly not Jesus…Jesus never thought he was God). I think the king is supposed to be an asshole.

[Captain_Amazing]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

No. The King specifically orders his servants to do the killing. “Bring them here and kill them in front of me.” He’s definitely telling others to do it.

Maybe, but in the parable of the wheat and the tares, the reapers who will destroy the wheat are “the angels”. At any rate, if you look at the parable, the enemies don’t get killed until the king gets back. That’s when he passes judgment on everyone: the servants who made a profit, the servant who didn’t, and the enemies who tried to stop him from becoming king. So even if Jesus is telling his followers to “kill the unbelievers”, it’s not going to happen until the messianic age begins and the world is under divine justice.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

That doesn’t make it any better. Jesus is going to come back and tell Christians to start smoking atheists and Musims? That’s the message?

[Captain_Amazing]

That’s one of the themes running through the New Testament, yes. Jesus will come back, and set up a Messianic kingdom (“The Kingdom of God”), where goodness will be rewarded and evil will be punished.

Jesus, of course, wouldn’t have known anything about Muslims, and while he might have known about atheism, probably didn’t spend much time thinking about it. Atheism was pretty light on the ground in first century Palestine. The “enemies of the king”, would be those people who didn’t accept Jesus’s message.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

By Christians?

What’s evil about not being a Christian anyway?

[mswas]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

By Christians?

What’s evil about not being a Christian anyway?

You are not worshipping God or worshipping him in the right way. If we are going with teh Totalitarian Kingdom perspective then you are not paying proper obeisance to the lord and as such you are a net drain on the resources of the Kingdom.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

Why is it evil not to worship God?

What is this “Totalitarian Kingdom” thing? What “resources” are atheists draining, and why does God need obesience?

[Captain_Amazing]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

By Christians?

What’s evil about not being a Christian anyway?

Are you asking what I think, or are you asking what the writer of the Gospel of Luke thinks?

I don’t think there’s anything evil about not being a Christian. But for the writer of the Gospel of Luke, Jesus was the son of God, miraculously conceived, and come to earth to establish a universal holy kingdom, and who, after he was killed, came back to life, sent his followers out to convert the entire world, and then miraculously ascended into heaven and would someday come back and rule with divine justice for all eternity as God-king.

So from that perspective, not being Christian is setting yourself up against the Son of God and divinely just eternal God-king. That’s not usually a good position to be in.