I get mis-gendered or mis-sexed all the time and don't like it a bit

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I mentioned this several weeks ago in a post which went up as the topic of note was losing steam; it was like I had showed up just to administer the kiss of death–but it’s still true,albeit mundane and pointless,and I feel like bitching about it to an audience of anonymous Internet people…

Like it says in the topic, I’m constantly being mistaken for a woman, although I’m male,born and raised, and never had any real angst or doubt about it. The thing is, I don’t seem to look or vibe that way. I’m not tall, broad of shoulder, or narrow of hips. My face has always remained beardless, and for the lasst few years I’ve worn my hair long and loose (not that I wasn’t being misgendered or missexed when I wore it short, or when I shaved my head, or even when I suffered from a conformist haircut that would make any other guy look like a square citizen. It happened all the time then, too).My body’s always been pretty much glabrous, smooth and soft-skinned with little patches of thin rank hair on the pits and crotch. And I run to plumpness, which has given me what would be merely an impressive pair of moobs if there was any hair on them . I only started growing a few scanty whiskers within the last 3 years or so, and if I’m totally frank about those, they probably look more like old-lady bristles. And my body fat has of course accumulated in my pecs, hips and ass, which gives me an androgynous or hermaphroditic build.

So I’m always getting called Ma’am, or Lady, or by some female endearment by people I don’t know and have occasion to speak to. A lot of our neighbors just assume I’m female even though my wardrobe is all about black t-shirts and jeans. I overheard a new neighbor speaking to my boyfriend about his “wife” the other day! And it goes on…

When I was younger, this bothered me quite a lot for two reasons. It got me a lot of attention from straight men, and that made things real awkward sometimes. They’d hit on me and act with all the silly small courtesies hetero men do to charm women with. When I used to hitch hike long distances, my appearance led to some sticky situations. The other,more disheartening part of it was that Gay men–whose attention I did desire, very much, being one myself–didn’t pay me any mind at all, because they saw a chick, not a dude. Oh,some of them would be playful and say I was faboo or hilarious, but it was the way queens relate to their female buddies, rather than sexual interest. That bothered me quite a lot when I was younger, hornier, more active generally, and trying to present to the public as a Gay man.

Poor poor me, huh? I’m mostly over the angst and frustration of it–(having a good man for the last lo these many years , who doesn’t care if I’m funny looking or sometimes get him mistaken for a hetero, has helped with that)–but still getting called Ma’am and Lady and shit like that. When I have to use a public loo, someone’s always there to question me or tell me where the Ladies is. It’s still annoying as Hell having to either correct everyone who calls me “she” or else let slide a mistake that might complicate things, and to be looked askance at when I use my legal name. Annoying as Hell, and only sometimes mildly funny when someone’s assumptions lead to unexpected results.

Like I said earlier, it’s mundane and pointless enough, if somewhat sordid, and I just wanted to share, or vent, depending on your point of view.

2

Well, you came to the right place. For clueless strangers who care about your problems, even if we can’t relate to them. But we can still say “Damn, that sucks.”

By the way, I’m a guy, but I have always been, 100%, a woman on the phone.

No matter what I do. Yeah, even if I try to deepen my voice. Here I am, channeling Samuel L. Jackson, and Raji from Customer Service still says “That’s all I can do, ma’m…” (“Say ma’m one mo’ time, muthafckah!”)

It bothered me until after college, when I just shrugged and decided chicks are okay. And then I figured why not use it to my advantage, and I occasionally play the “Are you someone that can help (li’l old) me, pleeease?” card.

3

That’s rough! It’s becoming more common to wear one’s pronouns–on a pin on your jacket, in your email signature. It could help a little bit. One thing I do is if somebody misgenders someone I know, I tell them “Firstname uses he pronouns.” This saves them the blanching and embarrassment (even anger, sometimes) of having made a mistake about someone’s identity by presenting it as a matter of preferred usage.

4

I’m very much a woman in person, but over the phone I’m about 70% “sir”.

But i don’t care. I suppose because people who only know me over the phone generally aren’t very important to me.

5

A tenant and friend of my cousin swung by when I was at my cousins apartment hanging out having some beers. The three of us had some beers for about an hour.

This tenant had an endogenous name, baggie clothes and a hat. I talked to them not 4 feet away. I thought she was a he and said something to the effect in front of her that ‘he is a cool guy’.

I felt horrible. I really thought this person was a guy though.

6

I’m male and look pretty male in real life (beard and all) but I do remember one time in my teens I was living on Guam (my dad was in the Navy) and was visiting the Naval Exchange (a big store, basically a mall, catering to military families). I showed my military ID to the old guy who was checking them (you needed an ID to shop there) and he said “thank you ma’am”.

Now at the time I was young and beardless, slender (boy that changed) and I was in the habit of growing my hair long. Not by choice but out of laziness. It wasn’t extremely long but it was long enough I could chew on it. I guess I do have a couple of semi-feminine features; I’ve been told my lips are a bit feminine (one old girlfriend said she was “jealous of them”, yeah that’s a compliment to your boyfriend :roll_eyes:) and I have somewhat long eyelashes. Combine all of that with an old guy with poor eyesight and I could see the mistake.

I was so embarrassed though. I was probably 14, I was probably at the lowest my self-esteem would ever get, and so already insecure, and that really bothered me. I think I made sure to get a haircut not long after that and kept it short.

That was one incident. I can’t imagine that happening regularly. I’m sure that would really suck.

The only time I ever get mistaken these days are when I’m online and nobody can really tell what my gender is (happens on the Dope sometimes too) or if I’m ordering fast food and their speaker is really bad quality. (My voice isn’t feminine so this is rare; it’s not particularly high or deep either.) I don’t get embarrassed though, not anymore, and sometimes I’m even flattered. (After all why should I be offended? Women are awesome.)

7

Actually, I’ve been misgendered in person, too, when wearing a winter coat and a facemask.

I was mildly amused.

I suspect that it’s less upsetting for a woman to be misgendered than for a man. Because, you know, it’s not insulting to call a woman masculine like it is to call a man effeminate.

8

In a much less significant/less annoying way, I can empathize with not attracting the “right” people. I’m 50, but most people think I’m in my late 30s: I’m still single, and (when I’m dating) I prefer to date men who are my age or older, but many of them assume I’m too young for them. I also get patronized and “mansplained” to more often than I think women who look middle-aged do. The ability to be up front about my age is one reason why I don’t mind online dating sites.

9

Sorry, @El_DeLuxo. I’ve been misgendered only while wearing a drysuit with a hood on my way to or from a dive, and that’s infrequent and explainable enough to be merely amusing.

If it helps at all, maybe think of this as a sacrifice on the altar of women’s liberation. There was a time in history when no one would have mistaken you for a woman, because one could identify a woman from a mile away by the absurd, impractical silhouette of her gendered clothing. Now we get to wear stuff that’s much more comfortable and functional, and people have to rely on those unreliable secondary sex characteristics to pick us out, which means they’ll sometimes get it wrong. Thank you for bearing the brunt of me not having to wear a corset, bustle, or petticoat.

10

Maybe if you burped more and seemed proud of it, it would dawn on people that you’re a he.:face_with_hand_over_mouth:

11

Add me laugh out loud, @digs. Thanks

12

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there @puzzlegal . Though people do still try to stir shit by labelling women they don’t like as “mannish” (cf - all the crap Michelle Obama has to put up with) mostly they’re just labelling themselves as losers. There’s a little bit of the 'no, but really dudes are just cooler ’ poison lurking in all of us.

My daughter got mistaken for a boy the other month by a first-aid trainer, who didn’t twig at any time during the whole 3-hour session. She was actually quite gleeful about it, because she doesn’t want to be femme, and clearly it’s working.

Not to make light of people who do find it annoying! I quite understand your issue @El_DeLuxo - it’s a pain to have people make wrong assumptions about you, specially when it leads to them treating you in ways opposite to what you actually want.

13

I know that it shouldn’t bother me since there’s nothing wrong with being feminine, or being a woman, but I know it would still bother the hell out of me to be misgendered. I’m not exactly sure why, but I’m pretty sure it would ruin my day. Perhaps I’m lucky to have the height, build, and beard that make this very unlikely.

14

For all the time I’ve been on the internet I’ve frequently been assumed to be a man instead of a woman. Most of the time it doesn’t bother me and sometimes I even find it amusing, but I am very aware that my take on the situation is far from universal.

As someone who deals with hundreds of strangers a day in my job I really, really feel bad if I make a pronoun mistake. I wish English had more gender-neutral pronouns. We have one old lady whose voice is tuba-deep. One of the managers at work definitely identifies as male, full beard, but his speaking voice is higher than mine has ever been and yeah, he gets mistaken for female on the phone all the time. People with androgynous appearances. I don’t want to make a mistake and offend anyone, but it’s a freakin’ minefield.

I’ve also been misgendered when in heavy winter gear either on construction job sites or at airports, two places that lean very heavily male anyway so people are likely to guess “man” if there’s any ambiguity. Doesn’t normally put me out, unless it leads to a problem with toilet access.

15

When I was a teenager, beardless and with long hair and delicate features, there was a dance that dudes would do:

  1. Open the door to the men’s room and put one foot in.
  2. See me, leap with shock and mortification, and put one foot back.
  3. Look at the symbol on the door, then lean back in and look at me.
  4. Creep hesitantly into the men’s room.

It was really really predictable, and I resented those dudes a tiny bit every time. I eventually learned that if I was washing my hands and a guy stepped into the room, I needed to meet his eyes with a direct gaze, give him a manly chin-up half-nod, and return to washing my hands. “I know you think I’m a lady,” my charades said, “But I’m a dude, and you’re in the right place, so you don’t need to worry.”

I never got called “sir” on the phone until I was like 30.

Chances are real good that if the term “nonbinary” had been around when I was a teenager, I would’ve snagged it for my own. But it wasn’t, so I just learned to live with it. Now I’ve got a beard and a deeper voice and a dadbod, and it doesn’t happen nearly as often.

16

A family friend has the opposite problem, she gets mistaken for a man quite often. She prefers a shorter hair style, it’s over her ears but collar length. She is short and on the chunky side. She is flat chested and most do not notice that she does have boobs. She has a ruddy facial complexion and rarely wears makeup to hide it. We were friends with benefits for a while years ago and she is all woman in the sack. Her husband has been called out as gay on a couple occasions too because of her looks. But her high squeaky voice gives her away. I don’t think it bothers her as much as it use to now that she is in her early 60’s.

17

I don’t get mis-gendered by anyone looking at me, despite the fact that much of the time the outer layer(s) of my clothing was all designed for males. (Neither men’s nor women’s clothing usually fits me right, and the men’s have better pockets and are usually better made. And the inseam length is divorced from the rise length.) I suspect that’s got a lot to do with being large-breasted.

And I rarely get misgendered on the phone. But I do get misgendered, very often, in writing; and I do find it annoying, not because it bothers me if people can’t tell my gender (I’m entirely fine with being called “they”), but because the underlying assumption very often is either that “farmer” is male, or that male is the default norm in general. And I find those assumptions annoying.

18

I’m really short for a guy, and usually keep my hair pretty long, so I’m mistaken for a woman occasionally. If I cut my hair short then it’s curly and wavy, so it still looks like something a woman would wear. For the last four years or so I’ve had a considerable amount of facial hair, and it still happens occasionally. Even back in pre-mask times.

I don’t particularly like it, but it also doesn’t really bother me. I identify as male, and am cis-hetero. What I mean is, if the cashier barely looks up and says, “have a nice day, mam” it doesn’t ruin my day or anything. Mostly it just gets an eye-roll.

What did bother me was women complementing my hair. It was always “I wish I could have hair like yours” not “I wish I could run my fingers through your hair” (or however they might compliment the hair of a guy they were attracted to).

19

Man, that IS how women compliment the hair of guys they find attractive!* “You can run your fingers through it if you like” is the response

(*)full disclosure - sample size of one

20

Assuming this is true, I’m putting this in my file of “Things I really wish someone had told me when I was 15.”