A famous physicist is giving a public talk on some astronomical topic, and at the end during the Q&A session, an old lady in the audience tells him that he’s all wrong, that the world actually sits on the back of a giant turtle. The famous thinker asks her what the turtle sits on, and she says “You’re a clever boy. But it’s turtles all the way down”.
I first read it in the introduction to A Brief History of Time, but I think it predates that book.
Personally, I knew it as a joke before I encountered SDMB:
One variation:
A westerner visits a oriental sage and asks about the cosmos. The sage explains that the world is supported on the back of a giant turtle.
The western inquires, “But what is the turtle standing on?”
The sage answers: It stands upon the back of another turtle.
“Ahh, but what is that turtle standing on?”
The sage narrows his eyes. “You ask a profound question, but sorry, it’s turtles all the way down.”
That’s also something the physics community was “worried” about for awhile.
You had atoms. Then the atoms were found to be made of electrons, protons, and neutrons. Then these were found to made of quarks. Also, over a hundred? other particles besides electrons, protons, and neutrons were found.
For awhile there, it kinda looked like maybe it was “turtles all the way down” and that all basic components would be found to be made of “lower” other basic components. And on and on and downward and downward…
Note, I am not a particle physics guru, but thats my 2 cent impression of the times…
Good find, thats almost the exact same story (albeit with a preacher rather then a scientist). And it predates not only Hawkings, but was pretty early in Bertrand Russell’s career, making it unlikely that he was the source either. And I think its earlier then any source cited in the wikipedia link.
Actually, the sources are all fairly clustered. The author of Fear Itself’s quote was Oliver Sabine, a Chrisitan Scientist bishop living in Boston. Wikipedia has a few sources claiming they heard it attributed to Harvard Psychologist William James who lived near Boston around the same period and wrote about the Christian Scientists and was friends with the third person commonly associated with the story, Bertrand Russel.
So I’m guessing Sabine or James originated the story around the turn of the century and then James passed the story on to Russel, who then either passed it on as his own.
I think I first encountered the ‘Turtles all the way down’ when I was a kid. It was in a novel I was reading (and this would have been in the late 60’s or early 70’s’, so it definitely pre-dates either the 'Dope or Hawking. I wish I could remember the book (I think it was a Sci-Fi book, but just can’t remember).
Another Clue:
Sabin’s speech (Nov. 22, 1905) attributes the story to a “Richmond negro preacher.” This Atlantic Monthly article from 1946, “Henry James as a Landlord”, reprints his correspondence with a female tenant, and a letter dated 2/2 1905 is posted from:
Jefferson Hotel
Richmond Virginia.
The letter mentions spending time at the Lenox (Boston Hotel). The following post is from Rye, Sussex (Nov. 2, 1905).
It seems possible that James heard the story in Richmond (about 600 miles from Boston) and related it around Boston. Or he could have composed it and someone – James, Sabin, or a third party – decided the story was more interesting if attributed to a negro preacher.