Okay, maybe hate is a little strong because both Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are amazing movies, but I hate the near-omnipotent and omniscient “Batman, if he’s prepared” demigod that he’s become over the years.
He’s a guy with a utility belt, a bunch of bat-themed accessories, and a teenaged sidekick. I get that he has the time, money, and resources to be the man that Steven Seagal thinks he is, but he’s in a universe full of gods and it’s unbelievable even in the context of comic books that he’s the titan that he’s written to be.
Also, Captain America would totally kick his ass, DC vs. Marvel be damned.
Speaking of the “Batman, if he’s prepared” meme, I got to thinking about that a lot after “The Dark Knight” came out. Really, how prepared is he? Seems like the Joker was always about two or three steps ahead of him. I think Alfred may have been the only one who even remotely had a clue what the Joker was all about.
The Nolan/Bale Batman is much less obnoxious than the comics Batman. That said, I tend to agree with the OP. Batman should be a genius tactician and detective, true, and a great hand-to-hand combatant, but not the absolute best as everything; that’s as silly and boring as the Silver Age Superman pulling any power he needs out of his ass. Some things he should have to hire other people to do.
One of my favorite Batman stories is a pre-crisis JLA tale in which all the heavyweights are unavailable because of some UN silliness and he has to deal with a world-smashing threat all by his lonesome. Though he succeeds, he has a LOT of self-doubt, thinking that “Hey…I’m not a alien demigod–not the creation of mythological gods–I don’t have a magic wishing ring—and I’m not a super-scientist like Ray Palmer. What the hell am I doing up here?”
That’s right. He thought THE ATOM was better qualified to be a Leaguer than he. It made for an interesting story.
Batman started out as just another Two-Fisted Hero, albeit one with a distinct theme or gimmick. He was simply a determined guy in good fighting trim with more resources than most, comparable to the Spirit or the Green Hornet. But not only has he had to compete with superpowered heroes and villians, but the bar has been raised even for non-super heroic characters. I think it started back in the '60s when the idea began in spy fiction that expertise in martial arts could give an ordinary person the ability to confidently beat much larger or more numerous opponents. But it’s gotten ridiculous. Batman now has to be at least as good as the (fictional) ultra-elite of government covert operatives, or secret martial-arts masters, who already are depicted as human Terminators. The kind of guys who can kill a roomful of armed men in ninety seconds.
To maybe get an idea of how far the standard has been raised, in the very first story featuring the Joker, the Joker beat Batman in a fistfight, supposedly because the Joker fought with berserk maniac strength. Nowadays, you don’t even count as a “tough guy” if you can’t spank a 6’10" 300-lb mob enforcer like a little girl.
Brings up one of the only things I -seriously- disliked about said film; the Joker is constantly going on and on about how all plans fall apart, and how everything needs to be chaos because planning is the road to failure.
Cos, you know… All the explosives, the kidnappings, the bank robbery… None of them had an ounce of planning. I’m sure they were all spur-of-the-moment.
(And yes, I realize Joker’s supposed to be Crazy, but the fact that no one calls him on his obvious BS about chaos vs. planning was just jarring to me in the movie.)
One bit about Batman that I liked turned up in a Wonder Woman comic of all places. Diana felt she had to neutralize all members of the Justice League for some reason. She split them up and tackled them one by one, without too much trouble. I forget how she dealt with Superman. Anyway, The Flash and Batman were together, so she took out The Flash, and then went back to where she had left Batman, and of course he was gone. She thought, “Crap[li]. I made the same mistake all of his enemies make–I underestimated him.”[/li]
In my opinion, someone tangling with the Justice League is going to be at a level where they think normal old non-powered Batman is no trouble at all, and that is why he can succeed.
You make a valid point. It was pretty cool in The Dark Knight Returns when he came up with a plan to knock the stuffing out of Superman. However Superman isn’t exactly an idiot and when combined with his powers aught to mop the floor up with Batman with little difficulty. I did like Tower of Babel where Batman’s plans for taking out the Justice League was stolen by Ras al’ Ghul .
I have a bigger problem with Batman in the comics of the last 10 years or so in that he’s a complete prick. My favorite incarnation of Batman in recent years was from Batman the Animated Series that first aired on Fox and then on the WB.
In DC versus Marvel, Batman won by the rules of the contest, as they were fighting in a sewer and Cap was incapacitated by a flood from which Batman saved him. But by their personal, ego-&-honor-driven competition rules, I think each would say that the other won. That is, Batman wouldn’t call it a “sparring” win because an outside force intervened; while Cap would probably refuse to accept a ruling of outside interference on his own behalf, though he’d have the exact feeling as Batman if the situation were reversed.
ETA: In Avengers/JLA (not in continuity with the above), they assessed one another and Batman decided that Cap would probably win ultimately, though it would take a long time. I personally read that as being his egotisical way of saying “You’d kick my ass, Blondie, and I can do without a pointless beating, thank you very much.”
Bats technically won, but it was more of a stalemate. They had been fighting in a sewer for hours, and Cap threw his shield at the same times Bats threw a batarang, but a pipe next to Cap spewed water at the same time so he missed and was knocked out (momentarily) by the Batarang. Lame, I know.
Personally, I like the “If he’s prepared” meme. It justifies his hanging around with demigods and makes for one of the coolest powers ever (he can beat anyone, but the writer has to be creative). He should get beat occasionally because you can’t anticipate every situation and be prepared for it (which is why the Joker’s randomness frustrates Batman’s efforts).
Nope. Cap threw his shield as Batman threw a batarang, but then a sewer line burst and deflected the shield. The batarang connected, though, and Cap fell into a raging torrent that Batman had to save him from.
This is rather insulting to the majority of the League’s enemies. You don’t think that they wouldn’t realize that the Batman was there for a reason?
Sure SOME of their enemies - the ones who are more brawn than brains, or the ones like Luthor, whose inability to conceive of anyone else not having the same kind of ego as them let them think the rest of the JLA would have Batman around to mock him - but they deal with a LOT of brilliant tacticians, social manipulators, etc.
Despero, or Ivo, or Kanjar Ro (the latter two being themselves ‘normals’, who use their skills and devices to put themselves into the League’s territory), or any dozen other villains, not realizing that Batman has to be neutralized, just like the rest of the League, is writing them as idiots. (Unreasonably, for them.)
I’m not really a comic reader, and my exposure to Batman has been limited to mostly the cartoons & the movies. And I gotta say, I like him better when he’s not in a continuity with super powered heroes. Trying to force him to keep up the the likes of Superman means he has to be perfect and to foresee nearly everything. It’s too much for my suspension of disbelief. On his own, though, he’s my favorite.
I hate the idea that he never gets called on or gets any repercussions for his jerky plans or behavior. Create plans to disable/kill all your friends? Nothing. Not for getting people killed or making bad choices like creating Brother Eye, keeping the last IMAC or not listening to Ted Kord.
He really needs someone to take him down a peg.
Besides Cap, Iron Fist could clean his clock.
And forget what Rex the Wonder Dog would do to him.
I must admit that the only time I ever read the League was during the Giffen-DeMattias run, when they were more likely to fight a weight problem, carnivorous penguins, or each other than a villain who was a credible threat, so I don’t really know too much about their regular foes. I just meant that anyone planning to take on the League is going to put Superman at Priority 1, and villains usually have an ego problem anyway.