I hate being an atheist

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

Who said anything about random ? Natural selection isn’t random.

And like it or not, the evidence is overwhelming that evolution by natural selection is exactly how we and the rest of the biosphere came to be is overwhelming. The evidence that God did it ? Zero.

Humans don’t fly by flapping wings either, as a rule. We aren’t constrained to do things the way nature does them, and scientists aren’t generally funded to perform experiments using methods that take millions of years. Humans prefer to work a bit faster.

Yes, it is for us to say. If God exists, screw him. He’s bad at the job.

Without belief we are free to make our own choices. Nor are we “mistakes”; by definition, we are the successes ( or at least their descendents ). Without belief, we are also right; believing in God involves either great foolishness or great ignorance.

Without God, there is hope. We have a chance to make the world and ourselves better. WITH God, there is no hope; we are the helpless toys of an egomaniac and will be forever. We are fortunate that there isn’t a God.

42

Martin Gardner called himself an “emotional theist” - I think the quote goes something like “The atheists have a better argument, but I’m happier this way.”

43

It will be erased for everyone.

The galaxy and every species that ever lived here will be erased. The existence of humans will be utterly erased and leave absolutely nothing behind.

Personally, that doesn’t bother me much, but it does make it silly to feel better about death because of your lingering effects after death. They are just as short-lived as you are, so it just pushes complete annihilation a little bit farther off.

There is nothing sadder than an atheist trying to inject magic and nobility into the unfeeling, mindless, inevitable extinction of all life.

If you want magic, just go all out. Make up your own heaven and tell yourself you will go there. Or make up some other magic fantasy. That’s what I do. But don’t try to make reality something it isn’t.

44

What a load of ignorant shit.

45

Not a believer in the Multiverse or Omega Point, I take it…

46

Eventually, yes. But that’s not what I was talking about.

Sure, but by that time, there won’t be anyone left who I would know or care much about. Humans aren’t good at dealing with the amount of time you’re speaking of. The sun will become a red giant in about 5 billion years, and the earth isn’t even that old yet. From a human perspective, that’s “forever”. The actual end of the universe is a lot further away.

Who’s doing that? I like my friends and family, and I hope that they will have a little happier life because of me, regardless of how long they’ll live or whether they survive me. I’m not so selfish that I don’t care about what happens to them after I die.

47

No, but as the years go on I lose more and more patience with these people. You don’t like how you feel about something? Adjust your attitude. If you’ve been miserable for eight years you need to do something different.

No, it isn’t. If you lost something from your own worldview when you gave up on faith, fill it with something else already. Atheism isn’t bleak any more than it’s bleak to be your own boss instead of working for a big conglomerate.

This is a spoiled attitude. You are saying ‘my life is worthless unless the Most Important Thing in the Universe personally gives a shit about each and every thing I do, no matter how inconsequential.’ Why the need for so much attention and affirmation?
There are certainly people who give a shit, but you don’t seem to think people are very important:

Yeah- friends, family, other people, rest of the world, who gives a damn unless I have a god around to tell me I made a difference, because I don’t have the self-esteem to believe it on my own.

Vic: My dog died last night! I was always good to him and I needed his company. Why did God take him from me?
Guru: You pissed God off by staring at a beautiful woman on the street last month.
Vic: Oh, now I feel much better knowing that!
Guru: Also, when you die, you’re going to suffer eternal torment for masturbating.
Vic: … will my dog be there?

You knew that already. It’s tough to accept, but if it wasn’t, you would’ve been happy for them when they died, what with the eternal bliss and everything.

I hope I’m not being too hard on your here, Victory Candescence, but this is the attitude of a lazy man. You have some knowledge, although the knowledge itself may not be immediately comforting, and you have the option to do something with it. At the moment, you’re choosing not to. It’s no wonder you’re not happy with the situation.

48

Well said!

Here’s where I often find fault with religious peoples’ reasonings… they often counter this argument by asking atheists to explain how the universe began, or what happened at the big bang, or some other pointless unanswerable (in the present) question, but what they don’t realize is that:

Absence of proof does not prove the existence of the contrary

Namely, in that just because one can’t explain how the universe began, doesn’t mean God had to have a hand in creating things. Mutually exclusive.

Penn and Teller once had on their show a professor of religion, who attempted to prove the existence of God by stating that “there was no scientific proof that the stories in the Bible didn’t happen”. Ugh.

===

I also find the atheist worldview very liberating. It’s good to know that I alone am accountable for my actions, and that my impact on the world is measured only by how much I contribute to the well-being of others.

There’s no phony-baloney God for me to please by doing his “work”. I definitely appreciate the principles and values that are taught to religious types… after all, “it’s nice to be nice” is a perfect example of altruism… but having to attribute your good deeds to a supreme deity is a little far-fetched for me.

(In other news, I just realized that “deity” violates the “i before e except after c” rule…)

49

So that’s why nobody can spell atheist.

50

I agree with all the folks upthread who think that Victory Candescence needs to adjust his attititute.

I’ve been an atheist for years (since about age 16) and it’s only a bleak mindset if you let it be. There are plenty of believers who have a mighty bleak outlook themselves – read a few Chick Tracts for a window into a mindset that will make the grouchiest brand of atheism seem like a miracle of sunshine and kittens. Change your mind, Jack – atheism doesn’t need to be bleak. To me, it is empowering. Look at all mankind has acheived (and yes, we’ve done bad things, too, but more good things, in my opinion) and we did it all on our own, with no supernatural puppetmaster pulling the strings.

As for seeing your dead loved ones again… well, I feel you there. That is probably the one tenant of traditional religion I am jealous of. That said, your loved ones aren’t really gone as long as remember them. And they’ll ‘live on’ as long as the stories about them do. This is how I think about it, anyway, and it does give me comfort.

An illustrative story: My grandad was a really neat guy and I loved him to pieces. One of his charming quirks was that he used his own made-up words for some things. For instance, he always called dogs ‘carnaheenies.’ No idea where he got that from. Anyway, Grandad died several years before my kids were born, so they never got to meet him.

My oldest son is now an adult. When he was home last, my parents came over to dinner and Nick was telling us about his recent deployment to Iraq (he is in the Navy; a Hospital Corpsman working as a Field Medic for the Marines)). He was telling us about the street dogs, and mentioned that when the Marines heard him call one of these dogs a ‘carnaheenie’ the term took off and soon everybody in his unit was calling them that. My dad was surprised and asked Nick where he got that expression. Nick replied that I had often told him about my Grandad and his love of dogs and funny words and that he, Nick, uses the expression in his great-grandad’s honor, and just because he thinks it’s cool.

My dad looked at me (literally) with tears in his eyes, he was so moved. It was like my grandad was sitting right there in the room with us.

So who needs an afterlife, anyway?

51

do you believe in life after love?

52

I think you mean tenet.

53

I did.

If there was really a God, would He let typos happen to good people?

54

The trick to this, whether atheist or not is to find meaning outside of yourself. As an atheist if you care about other people and care about their well-being after you’re gone you can still find meaning in what you do as you will live on after a fashion in what you leave behind here on Earth.

Existential malaise is a very horrifying thing, but it’s one of those things you simply have to push through. Just because you won’t be around to experience things doesn’t mean that others won’t.

55

Yes, your existence is not completely erased right after you die. If that is your point, fine. But what I fail to understand is what real difference it makes that you extend your short life by another short time of memory after you die. You are just delaying the question.

Your existence, as well as the existence of humans at all, will be utterly erased. Wiped out. Your memory will be gone long before that.

Like I said, that doesn’t bother me.

But it makes no sense at all to say “well, I wouldn’t be ok with death, but I live on in the memory of others” No… they all die too.

You can be ok with death, or not ok with death, but living on in memories is irrelevant to the issue.
Also, the belief that humans should live forever is an incredible and controversial assessment of their importance.

You are apparently the one who does not rate humans so highly. Not that you are wrong necessarily. Maybe humans aren’t really that deep, and have nothing to offer to be worth living so long.

56

Most people, yes. But a few people get to live on in the memories of others through their work - through the history or the art that they helped create. Alexander the Great, Cleopatria, Tennyson - died so long ago that no one now has a living memory of them - yet they won’t be forgotten.

Even ‘small’ people who lived rather ordinary lives sometimes live on. People who wrote diaries during the Civil War, letters during WWII - there memories are meaningful to people who are interested.

57

What real difference does it make to live at all? Personally, I’m of the opinion that life is “objectively pointless”, but we all have wants and desires and drives and trying to fulfill some of them makes us happier than ignoring them.

I’m OK with death. I was just pointing out that it is a pretty egotistical to claim that after you die, everything is erased.

What are you talking about?

58

I agree with a lot of what other people posted. Your feelings aren’t unique to religious people turned atheist – plenty of people miss feeling like they used to, being spoiled with love as a kid, thinking they’ve got the world figured out in black and white as a kid. It’s the point where some people turn to religion for ‘all the answers.’

Now, I’m not going to recommend you try magic mushrooms, but you might want to give Richard Linklater’s film Waking Life a look. It looks at dreams – the coolest things ever, whatever your belief system – and death.

59

This more or less sums up my take on things.

And this.

Right. See, I find this to be freeing for the reasons listed above.

I somewhat have the there’s-no-afterlife-so-who-gives-a-shit attitude, but in a good way. I don’t have to fret about every mistake I make, or worry about burning in hell because some old guy with a beard is watching me masturbate. No need to have to ask myself if God approves, with the only way of knowing being to sift through some dusty old book, much of which is self-contradictory and patently absurd. I get to ask myself what I think is right and act accordingly. That’s freedom you can’t buy with the whole religious thing. The point of “doing anything” is that I get to enjoy my life. And if I mess up, I’ve only failed myself (which I’ll admit actually turns out to be more disappointing than being able to say, “The devil made me do it”), which is okay because I can improve and move on. None of this matters; stop worrying, and enjoy.

60

The OP said everything you do gets “erased” after you die. You’re certainly gone, but that’s not the same thing.

And? It still happened, and your actions do continue to have effects after you die even if the effects are not eternal. Sooner or later, given a few billion years, everything is going to be gone.
I am not saying a memory is the same as a living person, or that you don’t ‘really’ die if people remember you. There’s a clear difference. The final question we’re dealing here is about what life is really worth. Is it worth something for its own sake or does some worth need to be assigned to it by an external god, or for that matter, by other people, who’ll remember you or not?
I lean toward the former and I think on that standpoint, the atheistic view is very freeing and positive. If the value of your existence is assigned by a god, it has only that assigned value. Even worse, many religions hold that humans, or the universe itself, exist in the first place only to glorify god. In my opinion that makes humanity worth about as much as a Little League Baseball participation trophy: its only reason for being is that somebody needed a little prize to feel good about himself.

I didn’t give an opinion on whether or not humans should live forever. (If they could, however, I don’t see any reason they shouldn’t.)

Again, I didn’t express an opinion on what people should or shouldn’t do. I was talking about the fact that our lives affect other people, which they do. That’s not the same thing as perpetual existence.