Heh. It is easier for gay manwhores to find other gay manwhores than for a straight man to get some bimbo, but not all gay guys are such, and I don’t think that “getting laid” is necessarily Wesley’s goal. I’m a gay guy, and I am in a similar situation to the OP. 25 y/o, no prospects either near or on the horizon, but I’m largely happy with that.
Rereading that, it seems kinda rude. I don’t mean to imply that your friends are gay manwhores, just that any semi-attractive gay guy can go to a bar and find another one for sex fairly easily, if that’s what he wants, but that that isn’t really what Wesley wants. I think.
Man, there isn’t a woman that walks by that doesn’t make me think “I want to jump that,” and I’m not talking about anything as formal as dating, either. Okay, the college interns we get for the summer are starting to look like children to me, but all the rest of them… woo doggy. I’m getting married soon, for crying out loud.
I spent an hour on the phone last night with one of my daughters. She’s 23, single, doing very well in the Air Force (Medical Airman of the Year! go girl!), beautiful, confident, and well spoken . (no, that’s not just mom talk - in HS she was Class Favorite, Homecoming court, Class Officer, and all that sort of stuff)
She spent 30 minutes crying on the phone because she hasn’t met anyone who’s interesting, nor has she been on a date in eight months. It’s not because she hasn’t been asked out, more because the men who’ve asked her out are known players and she doesn’t play that game. My husband summed it up nicely when he said she’s the marrying kind of gal … the kind that when the players are done playing, they want for life; therefore, her time isn’t here yet. Very discouraging for her.
I share this to let you know you’re not alone, several young women I know feel the same way and are just as discouraged as you are. I also feel like I should mention that a couple of these young women (my daughter included) are sort of old fashioned and still believe the man should ask the woman out; therefore they are waiting for you to take the initiative to ask them out.
The advice I gave her is to get involved with activities that the sort of man she would like to meet would also be involved in. In addition, volunteer in organizations you believe in and expand her interests.
Sounds more like you’re starving in a grocery store. Which would definitely, definitely suck.
Second the motion to find some kind of social group–church, dance, gaming–however:
That’d be the problem with it. If you don’t know them well enough to know how they’d react, or know that they wouldn’t react badly, then you’re going to want to hold off on the asking-out part.
What sort of hobbies are you interested in, or always wanted to try? Into any sports or activities, or want to try them? It’s kind of hard to come up with good suggestions without knowing what you’re up to, or interested in; depending on how things are for you, you might do well taking up rock-climbing, fencing, going on bar crawls or joining the SCA. Or all of the above.
If you should find yourself in a nice stable vividly erotic multi-polyamorous relationship with 8 deliciously attractive women, and are thus getting your brains fucked out several times per day, the ridiculousness of the male sexuality is such that
you’ll still see a dozen cute females when you go out walking to the 7-11 for a soda, and when you see them you’ll want them, and feel annoyingly deprived of having them when you do.
I agree with you: when I die, (if the God and after-death thingie turns out to be as oft described), I want a few minutes with God, alone, and we’re gonna have a little chat about this.
I don’t know which is worse, your situation or mine… I am still reeling from the death of a 9-year relationship. I lost the love of my life and almost 2 years later it still hurts like hell. I’ve dated other guys but I can’t connect with anyone else because I feel like I am dead inside. While all of our friends (me and my ex-boyfriend’s friends) are getting engaged, married and having children, I am having to start again at square one. Sometimes I think I would be better off if I had never dated anyone because the stuff I have been through (dating-wise) has really screwed me up.
I’ll second the opinion here that friendship is a gateway to dating. Join a few clubs – particularly clubs that aren’t dominated by other single guys – and just have fun. Be friendly, enjoy the company, and invite “a few” of your new friends out bowling or to dinner all at once. Dancing, theater, hiking, and community service organizations immediately spring to mind. Just go into it expecting to meet some friendly people. If there’s a cute young lady or two, get a group together for bowling or whatever, and then ask the young lady along. This ensures that you two won’t end up “alone together” the first time out, and lets you each observe the other without those awkward silences. A few such evenings with groups, and you will begin to notice whether (a) you find yourself particularly attracted to one of them, and (b) if she finds herself open to dating you. I know it sounds stupid to say (and I’ll admit that I was pretty bad at picking up on it at first) but you’ll know when she’s interested in you.
This still bugs the shit out of me. A good solution is to go out to lunch at a nice outdoor café about once a week with another – similarly committed and similarly distracted – male friend, and go girl-watching. On the walk home, high praise for significant others to assuage guilt.
Wes, I highly recommend seeing a shrink. If you are in school or employed, there is a decent chance that you may have some benefits that will make this affordable. If you don’t, will you please PLEASE invest the $8 in yourself and pick up a copy of “Feeling Good” by David Burns? It’s a book on cognitive therapy that — given your posts here — would help quite a bit, I think.
When it comes to dating, the most valuable part of confidence is being willing to take risks and ask people out. It doesn’t sound like you have a problem with this, which is great. However, the second most valuable part is projecting an attitude that you’re not really concerned about possible rejection, i.e. if she says no, no big deal: it’s probably due to bad timing, not because there’s anything wrong with you. (Mind you, you can still worry about the latter, everyone does, you just have to project the former.) You may not even realize you’re sending out “fear of rejection” signals, but if you are, that’s a huge turn-off.
This is of course absolutely OK. If you truly want to be single and not date, more power to you. Some of the most interesting people I know are unabashedly single.
However, it sounds to me like you’re rejecting dating out of frustration at trying to meet people, rather than a genuine preference for being single, which I think is a mistake. There probably still are a lot of things you can do to make it easier to meet attractive, interesting women (e.g. get a cool haircut, update your wardrobe, start working out, take dance classes, join a club, take up a sport, etc.) I’ve been on both sides of your situation (unable to meet/date women vs. having lots of options once I’d made some changes), so I’d be happy to offer more detailed advice if you’re interested.
I can relate to this, and to some of the other things you’ve said here. Here’s some advice I give myself; you can listen in and use it for yourself if you think it’ll help:
Step 1: Get a life.
Step 2: Invite someone to join you in some part of that life. If she turns you down, it’s her loss, and hey, you’ve still got a life.
When it comes to dating, remember: It’s supposed to be fun. If it isn’t, change the rules so that it is.
A sense of humor is one of the greatest assets a guy can have. Because (1) it helps if you don’t take yourself or the situation too seriously, and (2) if you can make a girl laugh, you are well on your way to winning her heart.
What parts of your attitude need adjustment? Well, I’d start with the part about low odds making it worthless to try and then move on the “dating sucks” bit. Lots of things have low odds of success, but they’re still worth at least giving it a shot. The odds of the Wright brothers being able to build a workable flying machine out of bike parts in one go were way less than one percent, but they gave it a shot. And when that attempt failed, they kept giving it a shot. They tried because they felt it was worthwhile enough to be worth the risk of failure.
That leads us to the second part of my comments. You think dating sucks anyway and is thus not worth the risk of failure. Nobody wants to go out with someone who thinks going out with them is going to suck, for reasons I sincerely hope are obvious. I don’t know if every single romantic relationship you’ve ever seen has been absolutely horrid (which seems statistically unlikely), or if this is an example of sour grapes, but this particular attitude is certainly not very attractive in a friend, lover, or casual acquaintance.
I also think people perceive you as not being confident because of your Eeyore-esque “it’s all doomed to failure” view of meeting someone, and because of your previous threads asking about what’s attractive to women. A truly confident person knows they’re all right pretty much as they are. They don’t have to worry endlessly about whether they’re who someone else wants them to be, because they’re already who they want to be. If who they are happens to be who someone else wants, that’s fabulous. If who they are isn’t what someone else wants, well, that’s okay too.
I guess that’s about the closest I can come to describing a good attitude toward dating. It’s not something you can just adopt, though. It’s not a strategy or a policy; it’s something that has to come from within. Saying that you’re okay the way you are doesn’t do you much good if you don’t really believe it, you know?
In other words, you need to develop enough sense of self to realize that romantic attachments don’t define you as a person.
I agree with Thudlow Boink . Once you have a life that you thoroughly enjoy, women will want to be a part of it. I’ve found that 9 times out of 10*, when I’m attracted to a guy, it’s because I find his life exciting in some way. And I want the opportunity to share in that excitement.
And, I don’t necessarily mean taking up an extreme sport. Just a man’s outlook and enthusiasm for whatever it is he does, even if it’s sitting on the couch watching TV, can be endearing. That’s what charm is: enthusiasm for your life. It just bleeds over into enthusiasm for others’ lives.
I also agree with CrazyCatLady that the numbers game is leading you astray. Everyone meets people they are attracted to and would like to date, but for whatever reason it just doesn’t happen. Personally, I think you’re numbers are skewed to the pessimistic side. From what I’ve read, you seem like an intelligent, thoughtful, sweet guy. I’m sure your numbers are higher. Plus, once you find the 1 in X girl, the X-1 girls won’t matter. The search will have been worth it. But, hey, I’m in the dating bunkers too. I know it sucks waiting for the 1.
And, yes, it’s OK to just not date. It’s your life. Live it to your expectations and no one else’s.
*for the other 1 guy, it’s purely physical attraction.
I can sympathize with the OP. It IS just plain demeaning to put yourself out there on the dating circuit, or at least that’s how I feel. It’s like a damn meat-market, especially with men my age in the late teens-early twenties range.
If I meet a guy I’m interested in, asking him for a date reminds me uncomfortably of handing out resumes – here’s my relationship experience, my sexual training is in column 3, and don’t forget the all-important Bling Report, which analyzes how much your friends will or will not envy you when they see me attached to your arm. It doesn’t help that the only men I attract are wannabe playahs and/or married.
The crazy thing is, I know for a fact there’s millions of people out there looking for love or at least something enjoyable. Why else would dance clubs, singles ads, designer clothes, cologne, sappy love songs and every movie Meg Ryan’s ever made even exist?
No one likes to be turned down. But for some of us, the fear of being laughed at or pitied is far worse.
Try to keep things as open-ended as possible, and don’t think too much into anything. That’s the best advice I can give, as it was those problems which held back my friend and I quite a bit as far as dating women went.
I agree with others who have said that your attidute about % is holding you back here- you have to really take the attitude that you hope each potential date will work out great, but you aren’t so emotionally invested in what might be that you take the rejection hard.
Nobody likes to be rejected, but in the circumstances you have to think about it realistically. If you go out with someone on a first date, and they reject you, and let’s say that this person is particularly crazy/vindictive and they really rub it in that never in a thousand years would they go out with you again, what damage can they really do? If it is someone you’ve met recently, its probably not anyone close enough to you to really hurt your feelings. You gotta really take failure in stride, be prepared to eat some rejection but also to shake it off and move on.
I have a project for you. If it works, you’ll be happy as Enzyte Bob. If it doesn’t, you will not have lost anything.
Mark out 30 days on the calendar. For that time, pretend to yourself that you’re “taken.” Don’t tell anybody else, and don’t go all swishy or wear a wedding ring. Just remind yourself, “No, I’m not hittin’ on anything. I don’t need a date, 'cause I’m taken.” If you meet a woman, feel free to make conversation; tell her you hope she’s having a good day, but don’t think about asking her out. Never mind about that, you’re taken! Now, I won’t chide you if you can’t do this for 30 days, 'cause I know you’ll be sorely tempted. Women who never noticed you will sense, somehow, that you’re off the market. Some will see you as forbidden food, and therefore tantalizing. Some will see you as safe, because you’re no longer putting out those predatory vibes. They’ll want to confide in you. Just go with it. You’ll learn to talk to them without pressure. I’m not just talking about the pressure on the back of your zipper; I mean the ridiculous macho pressure to make a play for every woman within sniffing distance.
When I, against all odds, actually was taken, I was suddenly awash in women. I was pissed off, thinking, “Where were these ladies when I was shopping?” I almost changed my mind about settling down.
Thank you. That is why when i make these threads i always tell people upfront that i’m not that afraid of women or asking them out. I just hate worrying about being laughed at behind my back for it or people thinking im creepy or something along those lines. I can handle rejection pretty well IMO.
If worrying about being laughed at behind your back constitutes fear of rejection, then yes i fear rejection. but i always considered that something totally different, a fear of social stigma. I fear social stigma, i can handle rejection. I also fear making people uncomfortable. That bugs me too.
At this point i’d rather just accept that things aren’t great and not worry about it anymore. I want to stop thinking about dating and not worry about it for a while because i honestly do not think it really is worth thinking about daily like this or that i am competent to find a viable solution or means of drastically improving my situation. It doesn’t mean i never will, just not right now. I dont want to end up like some of my female friends who make this their lives almost. If things aren’t working for me i’d rather accept that and move on, maybe later on they will.
I’ll admit im pessimistic. However I don’t believe i go out thinking to myself ‘all i have to do is ask out 20 women to find one who will date me’. what i think is of all the times i may alienate people, make them uncomfortable, or embarass myself those other 19 times when finding that 20th person. Its very demeaning when you ask a woman out, she gives you an email and then backs out at the last minute (which has happened to me). It makes you feel like all they wanted was to get away from you and didn’t know how. Or worrying about a group of people pointing and laughing. Yes i’m pessimistic but i really don’t think its worth the risk. In my experience of approaching women the majority of them are openly flattered that a guy thinks enough of them to approach and if you can approach a woman in a way that lets you keep your dignity it is pretty fun to meet new people and it helps build a social network. But i dont know if i can really assure myself that i can keep my dignity or not make others uncomfortable when doing it so i don’t.
The thing I like about match.com and similar services is, unlike old newspaper style personal ads, is that you don’t have to put out a net for 1000 women who fit very general criteria and see which ones you trawl up…instead you can search for that one that really matches what you are looking for.
I mean if I want to meet a brunette who likes going to carnivals and amusement parks, loves to paint, and like old rock and roll…I’ll find that match much more quickly online than in person. Whatever you are into, there is some girl (or boy) out there that enjoys the same thing.
Use the personals - but search for who you really really want first. 20 dollars is a bit of money for me to spend on something that isn’t that vital too, but before you buy you need to search and really think about who you want to start talking with online.
I don’t know what I would do without them, because I am way too shy to approach random women in clubs, bars, or in the park. In fact I am so shy, sometimes I don’t realize until later that a girl who was friendly with me in the grocery store or somewhere was probably flirting and I had a chance to talk with her.
So which is it? Either you have a very different definition of “success” than I do, or one of these statements is false.
I’m guessing that you either 1) Don’t really approach strangers on the street due to your fear of rejection, but you’re so worried about how you appear to others that you lied to us about your success rate, or 2) Have, in the past, approached strangers on the street, but never gotten a date out of the experience (and, therefore, weren’t really successful).
Plus, once you find the 1 in X girl, the X-1 girls won’t matter. The search will have been worth it. But, hey, I’m in the dating bunkers too. I know it sucks waiting for the 1.