I hate my American history class and want to drop it.

Mhendo,

Well, personally, I thought your response to me was simply disagreeing on a few minor points, not something that needed a reply, but if you’re that lonely down on University Parkway in a hurricane, I’ll give it a whirl.

A:) While a more balanced approach to history than the old fashoned “noble white man heros” one is needed, jetisoning it for the exact opposite isn’t any kind of progress. I think we agree on this point.
B:) A balanced look at the history of slavery in America is what I’m advocating as well. I have seen too many sylibii, however, that simply paint it as black vs white, good vs evil, to assume that that’s going to be the case, particularly amongst extreme revisionalist historians. Again, I think we agree.

C:) Current slavery in Africa of course has no bearing on historical slavery in America, I was just giving an example of something else extremely liberal professors are wont to ignore. I wasn’t clear on that, sorry.

D:) Again, we agree, my point on all slaverholders as evil was decrying those particular professors who teach that simplified and sanitized view. I have no beef with those professors who attempt to impart the entire picture to their students.

E:) I have met a lot of academics who tend to look down their noses at the great unwashed, feeling that they are better than the rabble because they are educated and thus know everything. There is a palpable sense of smug superiority about them. I am sure you have them down at The Hop too, don’t tell me you’ve never met any. These are the ones I’m talking about, people who are so sure they would never have done anything as evil as own a slave, when, had they been born to a Georgia plantation owner in the antebellum south, they would prolly have marched off to Mannassas to defend the practice with their lives.
Better? :wink: :smiley:

Oh, I am bitten in the ass by smilies! Replace each :slight_smile: above with colon closed bracket in your mind to set off my points, please.

Dave, my earlier snarky post certainly wasn’t aimed specifically at you, but i appreciate your replies anyway.

I suppose the only thing i would add is in response to point E.

It is certainly true that there is quite a history of academics assuming that lay people have no idea about history. This goes back to the birth of professional, university-based history in the late nineteenth century (before that, most of the great historians were “gentlemen amateurs”). Furthermore, many historians assume that the only people that they need to address in their work are other professional historians, and not the general public. I think it is this sense of aloofness that has alienated so many people, as well as the fact that some academic historians simply have trouble telling an interesting story, even when they have very interesting material to work with.

But, lets look at it from the other side of the fence for a minute. Suppose you’ve spent five or six years researching your topic, which is not unusual. You’ve read just about every article and book written about slavery in America. You have spent long, tedious weeks in archives and libraries from New Orleans to Richmond going over planters’ diaries, plantation accounts and logbooks, store records, the files of local businesses and newspapers, the diaries and financial records of slave-traders, court records, etc., etc., etc. You then put this all together in a 500-page book, which includes 150 pages of footnotes showing where you got your evidence. And a few flag-waving undergrads like Muad’dib, who’ve barely even opened the fucking freshman-level textbook, turn around and call you a PC thug who doesn’t know what your talking about.

I’m not crying too much over the lot of the professor. I think academia seems like a pretty good life–that’s why i want to be an academic–even though the pay is pretty awful considering the amount of time spent getting an education.

Nor do i think that their training and experience should make professors the only ones qualified to discuss such important issues. These are national stories, and everyone is allowed an opinion and a voice, not just the “experts.”

But i do think that a certain amount of respect is due, as in any profession, for the amount of work that has gone into gaining one’s qualifications and learning how to research, collect, analyze, and report on historical events. Want to disagree with the conclusions? By all means, go ahead. But it’s a little unbecoming, and pretty damned offensive, to suggest that the purpose of all this work was nothing more than an unreflective and anti-intellectual attempt to paint America as an unredeemably evil society. Even if people don’t agree with the conclusions, they could at least have the courtesy not to assume that those conclusions are the result of bad faith scholarship.

This, of course, does not really address the issue of what is actually taught in the classroom. On that issue, i can only really speak from experience, and say that while most of the professors that i have come into contact with (as an undergrad in Australia, and a grad student here in the US) have been on the left-liberal end of the spectrum, they have not been the types to present a simplistic, anti-white view of history. They concede the difficulty of these issues, and they realize the need to judge historical characters within historical context.
On an unrelated matter, you’re the second person in the last few weeks who has referred to Hopkins as The Hop. Qadgop the Mercotan, who got his MD here, used the term a while ago, too. I’ve been here three years, and you two Dopers are the only people i’ve ever heard use the term. Is it some old-timer’s thing? :slight_smile:

And as for the hurricane, it’s pretty piss-weak in this area, as far as i can tell. The weather reports on the local news stations have, as usual, been engaged in hysterical over-reaction to the whole problem. They’re really rather embarrassing.

Old timer’s thing? Why you little whippersnapper, I ought to…
Nah, I think it’s just a B-more thing. Lots of us Baltimorons refer to it as “The Hop”, as in “Towson’s gonna kick The Hop’s ass in Lax next year”. :wink:

Oh, and Re: Point “E”, I wasn’t limiting it to Historians, many of the social sciences are much worse. Historians, by and large, have a sense of perspective, from training if nothing else.

Ahem! I got my BA and my MD from the Hop! In my 8 years there, I called it a lot of other things, too. But the Hop will suffice.

Hullaballo! Canuck! Canuck!
(you surely have heard that cry at Lax games, haven’t you?)

In all my years in Bawlamer I never had a paramour.
(We rented, that’s why. Get it? Get it??)

Sigh. Hopkins nerd humor fixes itself to one’s DNA.

Actually, QtM, i’ve not yet been to a Lax game. It really seems to be more of an undergrad thing to do, and i don’t know a grad student who’s ever been to watch a game.

Add that to the fact that, as an Australian import, i’ve had to devote all my sporting acumen to learning baseball and football so i can discuss the Orioles and Ravens without looking like too much of a neophyte.

And maybe i’m a bit dim, but i’m afraid i didn’t get the joke. Explanation, please!

paramour

As far as Lax goes, we (Towson) are playing y’all at Homewood this year, I’d be pleased as punch to go with you and explain the finer points of God’s sport.

Thanks for the “paramour” explanation. I get it now.

It looks like JHU plays Towson on May 1. I’d love to go. I’ll get in touch with you closer to the date.

Oddly enough, it works in a strange way. :slight_smile:

Damn you, Mike and Dave, for raising the level of debate in the Pit! Hie thee back to GD!

Lacrosse is a great game to watch in person, you should definitely give it a go.

People, before I bring down the collective ire of the posts down upon myself for posting, I’d like to ask this:

Isn’t it the second unwritten rule of college that to get good grades you must learn the material, regardless of content or political leanings?

(The first being that there is a party going on somewhere near campus every afternoon and every night…and if you try to attend them all you Will fail out of school.)

True enough, although “learn the material” shoud not mean “agree with everything the professor says.”

I don’t care if professors inflict their own historical preferences–liberal or conservative–on students in lectures, etc. But professors should assign readings that provide a reasonable gamut of opinion or perspective (primary sources are a good way to do this), and should be happy to listen to and debate with students who offer divergent interpretations.

I have to say I find it amazing the length of writing by people that should probably be working or in school. I would hate to read papers from some of these posters as a teacher. They are all written in the pedantic and verbose style of academicians, and therefore dismissable as not of the real world.

As to the OP, suck it up. I believe only students that have an A can criticize the teacher. How you learn and what you learn are two different things.

Well, i suppose that when i kept this thread alive, i was just asking for some moron to come in with a complete non-sequitur like this.

So, a very non-pedantic and non-verbose FUCK YOU.

mhendo

I agree that professors should provide a reasonable range of readings and sources for their curriculum. However, only Maud is in possession of the facts in this particular case. According to what he has written so far it doesn’t sound like this is being done.

You may be right, but my comments were aimed more at the people who came in later spouting that this was “typical” of university history courses, and making sweeping judgements based on limited experience.

Also, the OP never deigned to answer my question about whether the text or the professor actually used the word evil–indeed, the OP never returned to debate the issue at all–suggesting that it was rather hyperbolic whining.

And i’m still not convinced that there’s anything wrong with setting a paper on the Pueblo Revolt in an american history course.

My first college class evar was the accelerated writing course given to any freshman who demonstrates that he knows how to string two words together coherently. The teacher was a nice guy, most of the time, but definitely a leftist - a leftist in that crazy, green, Ted Kaczynski, lives-in-the-woods-using-solar-power-and-eating-nothing-but-dropped-fruits way that amuses me quite a lot.

Anyway, we had quite a discussion on free association - I argued against some generally accepted civil rights, and he was not at all happy; at one point he threw a copy of the constitution with amendments at me. Interesting experience. I ended up writing my final research paper against the Department of Justice’s case against Microsoft, and expected the worst. I still got an A in the class.

Crazy leftist teachers aren’t all bad, I suppose.

HEAR! HEAR!!

Okay, I only teach PE, but students, PLEASE tell us what you’re thinking!!!

I can’t tell from the look on your face whether you’re bored, or just so out of breath from the great workout I’m (hopefully :)) giving you that you can’t breathe! (j/k, of COURSE I want the students to breathe properly).

The point is, we don’t know unless you tell us! If you’re too shy, email us, or leave us a note, SOMETHING.

I’ve been teaching at the University since 98 and my motto has always been “if you’re (the student) not ‘getting’ it, it’s because I’m not getting the steps and moves across in a way that make sense to YOU”, but in order to know how the student is doing, he/she has to participate in his/her own learning experience, and provide the teacher with feedback.

Evals are great, I try to incorporate suggestions from the semester before (unless they’re something I can’t change like the length of the class etc) into each new semester.

But wouldn’t it be nice if the instructor could provide what you want in your learning experience RIGHT NOW? The only way to know if he will is to tell him your complaints and concerns.

I love when my students give input on what they’d like to see for workouts and dances during the semester, after all, it’s THEIR class, not mine. They’re there to learn and get fit.

Hopefully instructors who teach the mind instead of the body have similar outlooks. At least try to find out, you might be pleasantly surprised.

My husband is a teacher at our local branch campus, and I think it’s fair to say that he would be ecstatic to get papers turned in by his students which were as well written as some of the posts in this thread. Sadly, most are barely competent.

Good writing is almost a dying art among those not in academia. In my husband’s other job, a prison administrator, he’s quietly appalled at his employee’s reports. Sometimes they approach the incomprehensible, rife with mixed tenses, incomplete sentances and gross grammatical errors. (No, I’m not a member of the Grammar Police-- that would be hypocritical. I do have a problem, however, when the complete lack of it makes a sentance impossible to read.)

While it is essential for everyone to be able at least to express a thought in simple written form, being able to do so elegantly is an added bonus. I for one think it’s sad that eloquence is deemed by some to be “not of the real world.” Sure, you can strip a sentance down to it’s bare bones and still express the same thought, but for me, it’s like going to a party in my plainest dress.

While I’m not advocating that all writing should be on par with Postmodernism I don’t think we should ever feel compelled to “dumb it down.” Why should demonstrating proficiency in the English language be something to avoid?