I Hate My University (and its too late to transfer)

The BBQ Pit
1

I’ve been chilling out in GQ, GD, and MPSIMS for a while, never spent much time in the Pit, but after lurking here for a day or too- I can see this is the place for me.

This is a crosspost , but it really belongs here.

I never took high school seriously, never did homework, never studied. If I bothered to look over the material I usually got an A, if not, an F. My grades were always in extremes like that. The result of my attitude was that I ended up at a University where as far as I know I am the smartest person, and that includes 95% of the professors. Take my word for it, this sucks big time. None of my 'peers] are interested in anything remotely intellectual, and I have to bite my tongue while I listen to their inane and consistently inaccurate drivel. (e.g. “Porcupines would make nice pets, they look soft.” Me: “No, porcupines are most definitely not soft, those quills are defensive.” “No, they look soft, hey So-and-So wouldn’t you want a porcupine as a pet? Don’t they look cuddly?” So-and-So: Yeah!” or my all time groaner, “Books? Books are for smart people.”) And of course I truly love the, “it-doesn’t-matter-what-you-say-or-how-good-your-reasons-are-because-I’ve-stopped-listening-to-you” school of debate. Another pet peeve, people here expect me to read their body language. When someone notices something I am holding, wearing, or doing that they are interested in they don’t say, “hey, what is that thing you holding, wearing, or doing ?” They stare at it intently waiting for me to tell them. It’s a minor thing but it really bugs me; most of the time I just let them stare.

But, what really drives me up the wall is that everyone agrees with everyone else! I swear, its an epidemic, I’ve come to the conclusion that people who aren’t bright enough to form their own opinions get by following and imitating everyone else. Consequently, 300 kids in a lecture hall waste my time and their parent’s money telling each other how right the professor and each other are. Most horribly, the professor returns the favor; they will almost never tell a student they are wrong even when they are. Everyone has identical prefabricated, overly simplistic justifications for their political opinions. Sometimes they are shocked that I could disagree. I am also one of the only people here in support of US activity in Afghanistan. On 9/12, I had to single-handedly defend the notion of U.S. retaliation to the entire class and its professor. Not only did they think retaliation was inappropriate they thought I was a fool for believing the US would strike back, and as a result the professor made every effort to sabotage my grade (including tearing pages off my 30 page research paper and giving me a 70 - she later regraded it and begrudgingly gave me a 90). These kids never picked up any reading material more advanced than Cosmo or Sports Illustrated and yet they are so goddamn, blindly and vehemently politically correct it makes me want to napalm the Poly-Sci building.

So now my only hope is to get good grades (I still don’t take my work seriously but its laughably easy) and score well on my GREs or LSATS so I can go to an excellent grad school where hopefully, I can forget all about this place.

2

First, welcome to the University of Everywhere.

Second, please don’t assume that because you did well in high school you should do well in college and are super smart. You may BE super smart, but success in high school is absolutely no indication of that. Speaking as a sort of former high school teacher, high school is not about educating people, it’s about keeping them somewhere during the day until you can get them out of your hose forever. Education is about number seven on the priority list for high school teachers. That’s part of why I’m not one.

My wife teaches at a university and I can’t tell you how many people she gets straight out of high school who are bamboozled by the fact that they aren’t automatically getting As in their college courses simply by putting their ass in a chair. I swore, when I thought about teaching college, that I would have a rule: “If you tell me what you made in high school in this subject, your grade goes down by a letter.” These are people who coasted through high school (because coasting through high school is very easy to do, given our current philosophy of education) and are now suprised that, like, they actually need to crack a book every now and then.

Okay, that side rant aside, your other problem. Again, Welcome to the University of Everywhere. I don’t know where you think we’re keeping all the high-minded college students who want to talk about Descartes and Chaucer and Gauss and Truth and Beauty and Art. I’ve been to quite a few colleges and only saw what you’re seeing. As an extension of this country’s laughable high school system (this is why I brought it up) we now have the laughable college system, in whcih we think Everyone should go to college, whether they’re ready for it or not. Most aren’t. It’s High School part 2.

So either look for some kind of smart persons club or wait until grad school when MAYBE you’ll find people on your lofty intellectual plane. Good luck.

3

cainxinth:
I don’t think you specified what year you’re in at said university, but transferring is not completely out of the question if you’re a freshman or sophomore. It’ll take some effort on your part to find another school, but it might to worth it if you have some years ahead of you.
I can’t say I have all that much sympathy for your predicament; maybe some research on colleges in high school would have prepared you better in selecting an appropriate school, but you may have a chance at redemption if you work at it now and perhaps hie yourself out of there.
I also have to agree with Legomancer; don’t expect the university to be a bastion of knowledge and thoughtful philosophical pursuits.
And by the way, if you’re hoping to get to an “excellent grad school,” better start developing some serious academic habits.

4

Things might feel a lot better when you get out of classes that are taught in lecture halls. In smaller seminars, you might run into professors more encouraging of your views and and more interesting in give and take and intellectual debate.

However, I’ve gotta tell you, I immediately question the maturity, intelligence, and perspective of someone who makes the kinds of statements you do. The sheer arrogance of saying you are more intelligent than 95% of the people on campus is really offensive–I can only assume that you’re saying that because this is the Pit? When I hear you make such comments, I immediately begin to wonder if you have a style of discussion or writing that raises the ire of your professors, and it is your attitude more than their lack of intellectualism that is causing you problems.

You have something to learn from other people, regardless of their intelligence (however you are measuring it). I also think you have plenty of opportunities to learn outside of class, which should only be taking up 1/3 of your total course time anyway. So lecture is boring? What about the hours you spend with the readings? If you can’t get something out of that, I don’t think it is the fault of the people sitting next to you in class.

I speak with some experience, because when I started college I found that many of my freshmen-year peers were less oriented towards the intellectual than I had expected. Luckily, I had an economics professor who observed my superior attitude and cared enough to kick my sorry ass for it. He said I had a lot to learn, regardless of what I thought and regardless if some of my courses were “too easy” for me. He was dead right. I probably stayed at the top of my class, but I came to find a lot of peers who loved learning like I did, and I also learned a shitload from people who weren’t as booksmart as me but who had a lot to contribute by way of perspective and other skills.

I think intellectual arrogance is a terrible vice–please don’t let the discouraging events of your freshmen year make it one of yours.

Buckle down, find a niche (look for that other 5% you say is out there) and work on getting the grades to transfer.

5

I don’t think I was clear enough. I did not do well in high school. My A’s and F’s left me with a C average. I think my SAT scores were the only reason I got into college at all. I get good grades at college without much effort because I go to a school where most students don’t know how to write a proper thesis statement let alone a well thought out argument. I’ve read their research papers and essays and they are pitiful. If I were to post one on the SDMB you would think a sixth grader had written it. Everyone here relies on networking; they share homework, cheating tactics, scoops on the professor, anything to make the grade without actually learning. Kissing ass is also not only encouraged, but mandatory to get good marks. I circumvent this unpleasantry by making certain I get 100’s on everything (I’m not bragging, at this school, with these curves virtually anyone with a modicum of scholarly ability could do it).

I am also disheartened to hear that you believe that the symptoms I described are endemic to all institutions of higher learning. And, you’re probably right, a friend who I often vent my frustrations to sent me a link to this NY Times article: Debate? Dissent? Discussion? Oh, Don’t Go There!.

I’m not trying to put myself on an elitist pedestal – My problem is that I am starving for meaningful conversation outside of online forums. I know of no clubs for intellectuals here, it seems unlikely one could exist. What’s more even the people who consider themselves musicians, actors, or ‘freaks’ seem to be shallow, false representations of a true artist or rebel. They are devoid of unique opinions; they are just following the example of their peers like everyone else. So I guess the only question I’m left is, what to do? Grin and bear it?

6

b]CrankyAsAnOldMan**, I’m not a freshman. I’m a junior; I take upper level, and graduate level political science classes, some with less than a dozen students. I genuinely enjoy my major and my readings. Politics have always interested me, but when class time rolls around and I have to take part in a discussion on the separation of church and state or the impact of the information age on international politics with a room full of people of like minds, I cringe. You found students who shared your love of learning; I simply have not, and I’m ready to give up looking.

Lastly, I agree that I have an attitude problem, but for the life of me I cant seem to correct it. You said you had a great teacher who “kicked your sorry ass” to snap you out of yours, what exactly did that entail?

7

well, if you can’t find someone who matches you perfectly, who lives and loves for learning, perhaps you should find a different criterion to find friends with.

or, maybe, you should look at yourself and consider why you chose whatever school you are at. perhaps, on a subconcious level, you went there BECAUSE you knew that it would be easy for you, and that you would be able to breeze through as you are. look at your class choices in the same light.

if you don’t mind my asking, what school are you at? i would just like to get a sense of comparison, if you don’t feel that that is giving away too much personal information…

8

I just have to ask-do you have some kind of artist/rebel template? A checklist, perhaps, to see who is the true artist or rebel? Does having unique opinions make one an artist or a rebel? I fancy myself a writer-though I might just be a shallow, false representation of one-and I can’t think of any truly unique opinion I hold.

9

All good questions.

I go to Syracuse University. I choose this school because it was among the better ones I could get into with my grades, and because my closest friends (who share some degree of my unfortunate attitude problem) were already students here. Other than my two best friends and roommates, I haven’t met many other people I can speak openly to. My roommates on the other hand, are not as critical as I. They have distaste for bullshitting but they don’t let it stand in their way. They have some friends with whom I am friendly with, but would not enjoy spending any large amount of time with. They are nice enough people, they are just not interested in the things I am and vice versa. Gossip is one of their primary pastimes. I still keep in close contact with my friends from high school, and see them during holidays, but they all have lives of their own now at their respective schools. Also, I really don’t know what can be made of the this, but I have taken several classes over the summer and winter at my local community college, where I met many wonderful students and teachers, with genuine opinions and concerns, who weren’t living their life following someone else’s example. I’ve met many people like that online as well.

As for my criteria for a rebel or artist; simply put anyone who feels passionately enough about a given topic to do something about it. The individuals I referred to choose their lifestyle, it seems, not out of passion but out of conformity. It’s almost too strange to be true: the conformist rebel.

10

Thanks for adding more information, and I apologize for not understanding where you are. I thought you had perhaps drawn your conclusions after a mere semester of college life. Given what you’ve told me, my comments were harsher than you deserved. I’m sorry. Thanks for not biting my head off in return. You’d have been justified, really.

First off: your high school grades should not matter to an institution if you try to transfer. That’s what college is all about: proving you can do college-level work. You’ve done that, and you can make a strong case for your acceptance elsewhere based on having done okay in college. Your college work shows that your SAT scores, not your high school grades, are the measure of your aptitude for college work.

Second: Is it too late to transfer? Well, you’ll likely lose about a year’s worth of work, because every college I know of requires you to have 60 credits at their school in order to get a degree there. But many people take five years to graduate anyway, so I am not sure how far behind the eight ball you really are. It might be worth it, even though you’d be in school for a year more than you’d planned on.

Third: Mediocrity is, blessedly, not the norm everywhere. It’s true that many students seem jaded and don’t put forth effort. People even say that here, at one of the (supposedly) best public universities in the nation. But there is a rich intellectual life to be found on many campuses. You just gotta know where to find it. Maybe there isn’t any where you are (alas) but don’t assume a transfer institution might also be devoid of it.

Third and a Half: How to find intellectual stimulation when you are starved for it. Hmmm. Well, could you try to recruit people for a book club, maybe? To discuss some hefty (or even not-so-hefty) works? I have to believe there are other people like you on campus, wishing they could find someone to bounce ideas around with. And you know, you really can’t tell until you talk to people. I think about a classmate I had named Ashley. She was gorgeous and partied hard and seemed a bit ditzy but one night I heard her having a great discussion about the Allegory of the Cave with someone else. Or Anne, a girl in my dorm who was the biggest pothead I ever knew. I can recall one time we stopped to pick up a brick from her dealer before roadtripping to the nearby college where both our boyfriends attended. On the outside, she seemed to be obsessed with nothing but getting high and finding the next Dead show. But one time she told me she’d decided to become a classics major and to make up for lost time she would be enrolling Intermediate Greek, skipping beginning Greek. She showed me how she had huge rolls of paper taped up all over her room covered with greek words so she could absorb them fast. She blew me away.

Maybe I’m an optimist, but I have to believe there are people like that on your campus.

As for that econ professor, he sent me a letter during the summer, after I’d been one of 50 students in his Intro to Economics class my freshman year. I was undeclared at that point; I was no one to him. He told me that he thought I was arrogant and that it would cost me a lot if I didn’t lose the attitude. He said I was bright and promising and perhaps might be more stimulated at a place more like Harvard, but I was blinded to the opportunities around me. He hoped that if I stayed, I would be a little more humble. It shocked the hell out of me that he would say such things to me–I was embarrassed but also touched that he cared that much. He ended up being my advisor, steering me to get Phi Beta Kappa and to read for honors my senior year, encouraging me in going on for my PhD as well (which I am doing now). When my son was born he sent him a funny letter about me, his mommy.

I wish I had easy answers for you.

11

There once was a time when I would be surprised by such a statement. I mean, it just sounds very silly to me.
Then I started to tutor English at the Learning Enhancement Center at my school.
Jesus. Christ.
I cannot not believe some of the things I hear and read. I’ve gotten to the point that I must ask each and every tutee if they know what a thesis statement is, if they have ever heard of a 5-point essay, and do they ever form outlines for their papers? The answers I always get? No. No. And no. I have to actually teach them how to write…a frightening thing.
My tutees range from 106 (Remedial English) to Non-Native Speakers, to “CAPA” students, to Grad students. It’s crazy.

Anyway, just sharing my experience…

12

Don’t apologize, I need to hear this stuff; while some of the details may have been off (because I didn’t supply them) I think your general impression of me is dead on. I am an arrogant, self-involved, snob, and I feel like there is nothing I can do about it. I want to be a humble, hard working, happy-go-lucky person, but try as I might I always resort back to the nature of my character. I know this thread is becoming some kind of a substitute for therapy (I’ve gone that route as well, drugs too) but I really don’t know of any other place to share these feelings and get responses from people I respect and think share some measure of my outlook on life, namely, people who value logic, forthrightness, and who aren’t exclusively preoccupied with the mundane aspects of life.

13

People really like being told that they are right and smart and important. Don’t miss out on the opportunity to kiss ass and get an easy grade. Because nobody really cares if you have an original idea unless they can steal it or make a buck off of it.

As for the Poli Sciences, as someone with a bachelor’s in political science from a somewhat respected school, I’d say switch majors now while you have a chance. English literature, engineering, anything useful. (English lit is good for writing later.) Not only do poli scientists not know how to form a logical argument, but they do not care either, and they think your writing looks strange if you try. They mistake statistical correlation for causation, and I believe you got it correct, just stare at you when they are shown to be idiots.

Moreover, you can’t get a job working for someone else being smarter than 95% of those around you. (And I for one don’t doubt it. I don’t know if you are smart, but I’ve been to Universities, and I am not impressed for the most part.)

I think you need to transfer to a school that has a better department in what you are interested in. (Michigan for poli sci, but it was too cold for me, brrrr.) Otherwise, you are wasting everyone’s time and not making the network of friends you will need later.

14

Thanks for the input DPWhite. Unfortunately, I am woefully inexpert at giving thoughtful compliments let alone full blown brown nosing, just the thought of it puts a bad taste in my mouth. I guess my attitude always ways, I don’t ask for recognition of my accomplishments so why should I offer it to others. Its something I’m really going to have to work on, if like I’m hearing, it’s a required life skill. As for working for others, chalk it up to overconfidence but I hope to bypass the system altogether.

Am I living a pipe dream?

15

Syracuse University is kind of a big school to be unable to find at least ONE other intelligent and intellectual person on the campus.

Have you tried hanging out with some of the engineering students or the chemistry majors?

16

Syracuse? Well, that’s a relief.

When I read the OP, I assumed you were at Harvard.

17

Cainxinth

I don’t think you’re deluding yourself about the “leapfrog” comment. One of the best engineers I know never formally studied engineering. He was just that smart. So if you aspire to be more than just a cog in the machine, you’ll probably do it.

But I think you’re looking in the wrong places for fellow intelectuals. It is my experience that poli-sci majors are extremely like-minded. They all see the situation through the eyes of their chosen media. If I was you I’d be glad that I don’t think like the rest of the class. I’d follow Catsix’s advice and look for mental stimulation from students in differnt majors. A person doesn’t have to be a poli-sci major to discuss politics. And many people are intellegent but still like to talk about and indulge in the mundane. But ask them a serious question and they could provide a surprisingly well thought out answer.

And on a side note: I’ve been in college for five years now, and I’ve taken time off to work full time. They are going to be stupid people everywhere. But don’t assume that right off the bat. If they’re not worth your time they’ll prove it to you soon enough. That and ass-kissing is for suckers.

18

Uh…this IS The Pit, right?

If you are bored and can’t find challenges at Syracuse University, it’s not because the university doesn’t offer those things, it’s because you haven’t taken the personal initiative to locate them.

Einstein in all his glory couldn’t possibly master all the disciplines that are offered at Syracuse, and YOU are bored? :rolleyes:

19

Hi there.

I was you. No really, I can see it, only I did it in late high school/early college with some unique twists of my own that managed to kick me out of the spin.

(I wouldn’t suggest them, one of them included almost dying.)

So, since I’ve been missing me, I e-mailed you. This can be worked on, and made better, and life gets amazingly blissful afterward.

Beyond that, catsix, nice suggestion if I do say so myself. (I’m a ChemEng and Phil major at U of Pittsburgh.)

20

OK, now it’s personal, because I’m also a junior at Syracuse.

First, Ukulele Ike, bite me. Syracuse is one of the top communications schools in the country and that’s what I’m there for.

Second, I’d just like to say for the record, I haven’t seen annoyances anywhere near the level the OP discusses. I will also point out that we probably have had few, if any of the same professors or even classes. A great big YMMV is in order here.

But I think the OP is making too many broad generalizations. When you said you were smarter than 95% of the people in school and you never bothered to do work and no one else at all you know cared about learning, I thought you were talking about some community college or something like that.

Yes, there are kiss-asses and lazy people who are just here to party but if you are as smart as you say then you would know where to find people that do care about more than having a 4-year party on mommy and daddy’s dime.

I also would like to question the OP’s claim of being “I am also one of the only people here in support of US activity in Afghanistan.” In your class? Sure. At school? Hardly. In my experience, the people that oppose it speak out more, but because they feel they need to be heard in the face of opposition. The people I have seen that are the most against it are the hippies over at the forestry school.

Again, it sucks that that has been your experience, but I just had to say that I haven’t found it to be that way.