I hate people joking about rape

The BBQ Pit
81

You didn’t say it was slang. You said you couldn’t possibly think of a better word to describe wild, passionate sex, than the word “rape.” I said that indicated a failure of imagination on your part. The English language certainly has plenty of words to describe that phenomenon. You have been offered some in this very thread, which you have ridiculed. Regardless, there are plenty of better, more accurate words than “rape,” and less loaded. If you choose to use the word “rape” anyway, don’t hide behind this claim that there’s no other way to express it. You’re doing it to be edgy and flouting those who might be offended. If that’s your bag, that’s your bag, but let’s not be disingenuous about it.

Well, see, no. You said there isn’t a better word to describe a certain type of CONSENSUAL sex. Demonstrably, provably, there ARE better words. You choose to use “rape” anyway. That’s not my opinion.

Consult a dictionary if you must. Your “colloquial” meaning is bullshit, used by people who are being jerks. So knock yourself out with being a jerk, but don’t pretend it’s anything besides that. Do you think you’re being cool and hip because you’ve embraced this obnoxious colloquialism? I think the consensus is, you’re not, and no one who uses the word “rape” that way is in any way cutting edge.

If the sole purpose is to hurt someone, then I’d say it qualifies as something other than a joke.

82

And that would bring to my mind crappy romance novels. I’d laugh my ass off, most likely, if I ever heard anyone seriously refer to any form of sex as ‘ravishment’.

There’s an area, for some of us, where pain feels good.

And to me they sound so … old-fashioned as to be more humorous than serious descriptions of a savage, vicious fuck (with consent, just so nobody thinks I consider that optional).

It happens every day. Things are ‘cool as hell’ or ‘kick ass’ or ‘fucked up’ or people get ‘pissed off’ and sometimes they ‘laugh their balls off’ or any number of words and phrases used as figures of speech in which the intended meaning is completely different from the dictionary meaning.

I mean who on earth would really slip someone some skin?

I haven’t seen anyone else come up with that one word. So where are these allegedly superior vocabularies?

I use it because I think it is the best word for the job.

For sex in general? There are other words. For what I’m talking about? I don’t think so.

You’re the one with their BVDs in a ball. You also seem to think that your personal opinion determines what is ‘cutting edge’. Oooh look at the angst.

At least you haven’t tried to tell me that if I only knew someone who was raped I’d never talk this way. Feh.

Honey the purpose of telling a joke is to give the listener a laugh. That’s the only reason for telling them. You seem to have decided that if you don’t laugh, then the intention must have been to cause harm. You really aren’t that important.

83

People, please don’t forget that it takes 22.3 years after something really traumatic happens until it’s OK to joke about it.

(waiting to see who gets the reference)

84

:confused: Why does it have to be “one word”? Who says that we have to use a single-word descriptor to get across the idea of violently passionate sex? What, does “fuck someone’s brains out” take too long to say or something?

But I thought this discussion was about **non-**serious expressions for passionate sex. I mean, you’re not saying that you mean it seriously when you refer to passionate sex as “rape”, are you?

85

It’s not as punchy. It just doesn’t do it for me.

I mean that the only times I’ve ever heard such cheesey terms as ‘ravishment’ is in the sense of a grocery-store romance novel or the mocking of them. I’ve never actually heard anyone use that term in real conversation and think it would result in anything other than laughing.

86

I’d laugh my ass off if I ever heard an adult person refer to fucking like crazed weasels as “rape.” Then I would immediately think that person was a dumbass. I’m incredulous at your claims that this is the best and onliest word possible for this job. Do you really think that? What did the world do before “rape” was used colloquially in this manner?

The word “fuck” does it for me. “Rape” does not because by definition it means non-consensual sex. Thus, it’s automatically disqualified for this linguistic task.

Then you suffer from either a lack of imagination, a poor vocabulary, or deliberate, disingenuous obtuseness, because rape =/= consensual sex, so it’s automatically disqualified. You don’t care if you’re implying non-consensual, forcible sex. I do care, because despite your testimony as to how non-traumatic rape is, I know other people feel differently, I don’t want to trivialize that through an inaccurate and insensitive use of language.

Can this claim stand up to scrutiny? I will bet you that it can’t. Open a thread, ask the Dope population at large if rape is the right word for what you’re trying to say. See what happens.

What the fuck are you talking about? Angst? I have disdain for your misuse of the word “rape,” that’s about it. YOU are the one touting your hip, modern use of colloquialisms, as if that justifies anything. I couldn’t give less of a damn if rape is used in the common parlance to talk about passionate, consensual sex. I think it’s moronic. Do you worry excessively about being cool and edgy? Apparently so, which is why you’re so co-opted by this bullshit.

You assume your, apparently non-traumatic, experience of rape, is the standard, so everyone who thinks rape a horrible, violent, life-destroying event is overreacting. I implore you not to assume that you know all about it nor to use your experience as a platform for dismissing others’.

I thought the purpose of a joke was to make as many of the people present laugh, honey. If amusing yourself without regard for anyone else is your criteria for humor, then it, like your vocabulary, is sorely lacking. Cf. Michael Richards.

If someone does something cruel or sadistic, then hides behind humor as a defense, I don’t think that’s humor… or it’s very poor humor. Screaming “rape” in somone’s face qualifies as aggression poorly disguised as humor. Without some mitigating context (as Carlin said, with humor, context is EVERYTHING), only the most humor-impaired would put that in the realm of “funny.” Apparently you are one of them. I’m so sorry.

87

This is exactly my point. It makes no syntactic sense for something to literally have the exothermic properties associated with Hell, or for a quality product to physically go around kicking people in the ass.

“I’d rape her.” does make syntactic sense, and can mean “I intend to sexually penetrate this person against his or her will, possibly aided by physical force and/or drugs.” If a word already means something something in a particular situation, attempting to add another, secondary meaning will be inherently prone to misunderstanding.

As mentioned, we simply have different vocabularies. Ravish, to me, means what you are describing. Rape does not.

Again, I would humbly posit that ‘rape’ is in fact a generally very poor word to convey what you are describing, because the vast majority of folks would be prone to misunderstand. I’m quite open to contradiction on this; if you can show that a significant majority of people wouldn’t understand ‘ravish’ to mean what you say, and would understand ‘rape’, I will cheerfully reverse my position. However, I believe that the opposite is true.

88

::models dunce cap in mirror, then raises hand::

Okay, Rigamarole, I’ll fall on the sword. What’s the reference?

And, yeah, I know–I couldve tried google, but it’s more fun this way. :wink:

89

It’s time for you to go home Dad, you’re drunk again.

90

I don’t remember a time when it wasn’t used that way.

To me, ‘fuck’ is very general and could refer to almost any kind of sex aside from the most extremely vanilla.

And shit is not good and hell is not cool, so ‘the shit’ and ‘cool as hell’ are automatically disqualified.

So are you telling me how I have to feel about something that happened to me? Because nobody is in any position to ever say that.

You know nothing about the actual rape, only that I am not traumatized by it. I never told you how it happened or what specifically was done to me or what physical injury i did and didn’t sustain. I only said that I consider it no worse than any other physical assault in which I was injured to the same degree.

Of course, the fact that physical assaults are traumatic and can leave lifelong scars both physical and mental has never stopped anyone from using the phrase ‘ass kicking’ to describe various things that are not literally ass-kickings.

91

And I never hear it used that way expect by teenage boys being assholes, which I even they would admit when called on it.

To me, rape is very specific and means “non-consensual sex.” “Fuck,” with or without modifiers such as “like crazed weasels” is adequate to the task you’re saying only the word rape can fulfill. Your continued insistence here smacks of obstinacy, not actual conviction.

What? No, I’m saying YOU shouldn’t do that to other people. Your non-traumatic experience doesn’t give you the right to dismiss the rape of others, or to drip disdain on people who say it was a horrendous, traumatic, psychological damaging experience aside from any physical damage. It’s funny how you’re trying to make it sound like I’m the person who is telling you how to feel, but you’re the one universalizing based solely on your own experience and trying to minimalize the suffering of others.

Yes, that’s true, and I don’t recall asking or making assumptions about it. You, OTOH, are making assumptions about rape in general based on yours.

And you are by no means the norm on this. That’s not a value judgement, it’s just a statement of fact. I just held the hand of a friend through a rape and its prosecution. Trust me, I’m sure she would have chosen an ass-whipping over the rape. That’s not your experience. Hers was different. Are you going to scoff at her? Say she’s wrong to feel that way? No way would I make a joke about rape in front of her. Would you? Do you think that would be OK because you were raped? Would it be funny if someone ran up in her face and screamed “rape”? What if the person who did it thought it was funny, would that make it OK to you? I just cannot fathom your attitude here.

So this somehow justifies your idiotic and incorrect use of the word rape? And your insistence that it’s the only word to describe forceful but consensual sex? Despite your insistence that a rape is no more traumatic than an ass-kicking, many people would disagree with you. I don’t see why you are right and they are wrong.

92

Take it, bitch. Take…it.

93

I suspect that some people experience rape as a trauma unlike no other, and for some, it is… a thing that happens, miserable and unpleasant, but eventually over.

I dare say there are women who have experience more cruel pain and damage to their genitals at the hands of medical professionals as a result, or in the process of, their routine obstetric and gynecological care - more things done to them against their will, without their permission…as ever suffer from rapists. Yet, dammit, they’re expected to ‘take it’ and ‘understand’ and divorce themselves from the experience, because it’s just medical after all. These women are not allowed, by cultural expectation to claim any injury, emotional or otherwise - that is, as long as the baby is fine. There’s even a phrase in general use, which dismisses the woman’s experience: “At least you have a healthy baby.”

Now why is it, women are expected (or allowed) to be horrifically traumatized by non-consentual sex, yet something “medical” is A-Okay? Why might some women not compartmentalize forced sex away in the same place they put OB/GYN pain, humiliation, and other hurts…and just go on with life?

94

Uh…maybe because medical examines and the like can actually save your life? (Like a pap smear?)

Are you seriously trying to equate a pelvic exam with rape?

95

I’m thinking more along the lines of pelvic exams performed, mid-contraction, to women in labor, by people who have never introduced themselves and who do not, it seems, give a good goddamn how much it hurts to to have a bunch of fingers shoved up inside one’s vagina.

Or in my own case, during my last pregnancy: cervical exams to determine effacement and dilation from week 24 on. These were so painful as to make me cry. My doctor tried to tell me she was sorry about the ‘discomfort’. I finally had to tell her that she couldn’t comfort herself with that word, because the right word was ‘excrutiating agony’. Her mouth dropped open, she stammered once or twice, and she said "Oh. Well, if that’s what it’s like for you, I won’t do it that way anymore, and I’ll make sure my colleagues know as well.

Like she couldn’t tell I was crying every damned time she did that, because it hurt so bad. Nope. I was expected to just “take it”.

I’ll give her credit: when she was confronted with the pain she was causing, she found a less-painful way to get the same information. Even though she would have preferred I endure it - her preferred way was easier for her, you see.

Regular papsmears bedamned. How about when I was 13 and had to have a “regular” pap smear because my mother took DES when I was in utero, and the pain nearly made me step outside my body, while the doctor made jokes about that particular speculum being so small that it was only used on one other patient, a little old 87 year old lady?

How about the women I know, including myself, who have been bullied and even steamrolled into medically-unnecessary cesarean surgical deliveries? Or cut stem to stern with “routine” episiotomies, so the doctor can spend 5 minutes less in the delivery room?

Oh right. That kind of pain is “medical” and that makes it okay.

96

Point of order here: There’s nothing objectively wrong with using ‘rape’ to mean passionate sex. I just personally find it an odd usage, considering that the word has an alternate meaning valid in context.

A similar example: ‘Hot’ is frequently used to describe something of superior quality and content. However, I would not consider using it to describe, e.g., cooking, because “This rice and chicken dish is hot!” has a syntactically valid, contextually-possible meaning.

Catsix, could you give us some examples in which rape is used to describe passionate sex? I, personally, am not coming up with any examples that don’t first make me think of rape’s literal definition. However, if ‘rape’ is being used in a manner such that the literal definition cannot be true, then its use makes a whole lot more sense.

97

Maybe you need to get out more.

You’re a piece of work. I disagree with you. That doesn’t make my opinion a put-on that I’m only adopting to piss you off. Why would you ever assume that the only reason I stand by my position is to be obstinate? Are you really completely unable to accept that someone might actually have an opinion you don’t like?

Again I remind you that you don’t know enough about me to say this. I never said it wasn’t a trauma. I said it wasn’t worse than any other type of trauma.

Well obviously you know better than me because you held someone’s hand.

I would. I don’t see anything more wrong with rape jokes than dead-baby jokes.

I don’t think that your opinion determines correctness.

‘My girlfriend raped me last night. I’ve got big scratches all over my back.’

Heard that one yesterday.

Some of you really need to pull the stick out of your ass (another turn of phrase!) and stop thinking that any phrase you don’t like is automatically so incorrect that nobody could ever actually use it in conversation.

98

Some of us cope with horrific happenings in our lives by desensitizing ourselves with language or shoulder shrugging or simply using venacular in a nonchalant manner.

It’s not unlike a tongue seeking out the wounded lip, or jagged tooth. You poke at it and mull it until it feels familiar.

Perhaps catsix uses the word “rape” in this way?

And I have certainly heard rape used in the nonchalant way catsix uses it, but I fear we’ll lose our critical compassion if we foster the use.

But then I don’t like hearing women referred to as bitches either - even though “my bitch” might sound endearing to others.

My two cents.

99

Maybe you need to be less callous.

I am completely unable to accept that a seemigly intelligent person like you cannot think of a better word, with less negative connotations, to describe passionate, consensual sex, than “rape.” I just don’t believe you. I think you’re full of shit. How’s that?

My problem with this is not with your experience, it’s with you making that the benchmark for everyone else’s experience.

Please show me where I said or implied that. No, dear, it’s YOU who knows best. It’s you who gets to tell everyone else how they should deal with rape. No one knows better than you.

So, knowing this person had been traumatized by a rape, you’d still make a joke in front of her, simply to amuse yourself? Then you’re a bitch with no fucking feelings.

Neither does yours.

It’s not a matter of me liking it or not liking it. I don’t want to hurt people who have already been hurt. I also think, and the fucking dictionary backs me up, that rape is the wrong word anyway. Stick up my ass? You have a hole in your soul.

100

Regarding offensive jokes in general, peoples reaction to these can be divided into three camps:

People who do not like offensive jokes of any kind- I understand this, but think they should lighten up.
People who like all offensive jokes- No problem with this, as it is where I fall.
People who like offensive jokes except certain ones, i.e. those that personally offend them. Personally I see this as a bit hypocritical, in the way that the person is saying I like laughing at bad things, all except those which personally affect me.

My opinion is the same as most I’m sure- a joke is a joke, stick and stones, etc. My gran could die today, and that night I could hear a dead grandma joke. If it is funny, I’ll laugh, if not I won’t. Why anyone would let something they hear affect their lives is beyond me.