What is “revealing clothing?”
You might say that the woman in tight short-shorts and a belly shirt is deliberately inviting the male gaze.
What about a woman in a long skirt, a loose tunic, and a head scarf?
You see where I’m going with this?
Nobody denies that certain clothing catches the eye. That fact is irrelevant.
What IS relevant is that the man is responsible for his OWN reaction to it.
I’m a hetero cis male. 41, healthy and virile.
When I see a woman, I notice whether she is attractive. And, if I’m being honest about what is going on in the recess of my mind, I may objectify her - “nice legs”, “nice butt”, etc.
And I work with attractive women, and I, on a base male hormonal level, prefer that to working with unattractive people, or just men. And - well, I’m being honest - a sexual thought will flash in my head if one is bent over or has revealing cleavage.
So, yeah, I’ve thought about sex with some of the women I’ve worked with. And if a woman out and about is pretty, I’ll notice. I may even glance at her an extra time.
But I don’t find this to be so distracting that I cant interact with these people. And, that inner mind that sometimes says “that’s a gorgeous sight” is also mature enough to remind me “don’t stare!” or “she’s just here to do a job.”
By the way, I think this recognition of attractiveness is typical of all people, not just men. I’ve seen examples of women noticing the good looking men in their midst plenty of times.
Usually, though, people manage their urges enough to get other shit done.
Yeah, you might say that. My only point was that I don’t think anyone did. And I think we can drop it right there if you don’t mind.
You become distracted, to what point that this interferes with your life? For example, if you are driving down the street and see an attractive women do you run your car off the road? At work do you stare out the window all day looking at attractive women and are not able to complete your assignments?
If that’s the case, you have a serious problem that needs professional help. Covering up the women or whatever is not the issue.
Two things to say on this:
Yes I will always notice attractive women, and I was just thinking today about how many accidents might be indirectly caused this way.
I mean, when driving I will sometimes glance at an attractive woman on the street. :o
Whatever I am doing I will notice pretty women.
For me, it rarely ever manifests into a specific thought about sex though. And I wonder if the OP is post-hoc trying to interpret his thoughts.
Not everything needs or has an inner monologue, and when I see an attractive woman there’s usually no words in my mind beyond possibly “Wow!”, and I am not particularly imagining anything. And on previous threads on the dope, other dopers have said the same.
I don’t get distracted to the point I’m a drooling statue when I see an attractive woman. I guess the point I was trying to make is, that even in working situations where the goal is to get some job done, if a new attractive woman appears as part of the team, it completely changes my thought process. It just changes things. It makes me more competitive and unfocused on the job’s goals (I’m not blaming the woman, just my mind that is the product of millions of generations of successfully reproducing males), even though I may already have a “mate”. I see this in me, I see this in my co-workers, I see this everywhere and I don’t really understand why some on the SDMB have a problem admitting this. It’s not a value judgement. It is an observation. Just admitting that men are ultimately controlled by sex is not a crazy thing. And in fact, if true social progression is to be made, we shouldn’t just push this under the rug and demonize it but rather accept that our evolution has brought us here, but also realize our minds give us the ability to rise above not to act on such things.
As a (horrid, to some) example, I was driving with my wife in our minivan, stopped at red light and this girl pulled up next to us on a scooter. The way she was sitting, the short shorts she was wearing, her body’s shape, I don’t know, I couldn’t even hold a conversation with my wife even when she was complaining about me being distracted by her… it’s like it didn’t matter to me, I couldn’t bypass it, I had to just take in the sight of this and I didn’t care how irritated my wife was. I know I sound like a real winner, but I’m just being honest.
nm
Like many things, there are spectrums of sexuality. You seem to have the high end of sex drive and/or you’re poorly socialized (I don’t mean that to be insulting - I mean it in the sense of not having a sense of social norms or appropriateness).
The story you tell here indicates a few things: your sex drive overwhelms you and incapacitates you. You also have some fence mending to do with your wife if you value that relationship. Even if you find the chick in the next lane incredibly attractive, it’s just rude to ogle her in front of your wife. It’s even worse to ignore her, especially when she’s asking you to stop the ogling. It’s clear you disrespect her. That’s trouble, with a capital t, that rhymes with d, that stands for divorce proceedings.
You are right that people (men and women) think about sex. You are right that sometimes these thoughts can be intrusive. However, if you can’t control the response or your behavior then you do actually have a problem that you should address.
I guess I am somewhere between nate and Mijin. I do think more than just “wow”. I imagine specific sexual stuff. But I also manage pretty well, I think, not to make it obvious and not to lose track of the conversation I am having with my wife or whatever. So for me it’s very internal and I think about it more like “boy, if people had telepathy, I would be in trouble, heh”. (Although I guess if they could read everyone’s minds they would realize how common this is and I wouldn’t be in trouble.)
Nate, you’re usung the “everybody does it” excuse to try to justify your own destructive behavior.
Yes, typical men notice attractive women, and sometimes are even distracted by them. It’s not normal to be so distracted that you can’t help hurting your wife.
Similarly, normal social drinkers may overindulge from time to time. Normal social drinkers can confine themselves to one or zero drinks of the situation calls for it. If they can’t control themselves, then they need to get sone help because they have a drinking problem.
Similarly, you need to get some help because you can’t control the outward manifestations of your reactions to women you think are attractive.
I am going to go on about this, because this is exactly the sort of thing that I think causes a disconnect on the misogyny issue here. When the OP tells the story of walking down the street, thinking “Damn, I want to hit that”, he just called me and every other woman in this thread a “that”. Right there, the tone was set and I was told that this would be a conversation among men, and any woman is starting at a disadvantage because she’s not even really a person to the OP–who is confident he speaks for all men.
And yes, there’s a potentially interesting discussion suggested by the OP, but it’s framed in a misogynistic and degrading way: it’s “Hey, fellow dudes, let me tell you about the problems the women cause me”. It’s humble-bragging about how powerful his sex drive is, so powerful he can’t interact with attractive women. He’s not looking for advice–he doesn’t think it’s a problem. He’s explicitly looking for validation that his thoughts are normal–and he only wants it from other men, because anything women say will be met with “you couldn’t possibly understand and any man who tells you different than me is lying to you”.
Potentially interesting conversation starters shouldn’t get a pass on being gross. I’d shut down the thread and suggest the OP or someone else restart it with the understanding that there are women and men in the room.
I endorse this. I think it expresses what I said earlier in a different (and probably better) way.
Is starting a new thread that much different than just agreeing the statements in the OP were offensive and moving on with the conversation? This thread or a new one. What’s the difference?
Cosigned.
Well, there isn’t universal agreement, nor is it just that they were “offensive”. They were exclusionary. They assumed that the audience was male and that only men could speak about the issue. And the damage is done, the tone is set–as a woman, now, I can engage in a meta-conversation in thread about whether or not the tone is appropriate or inoffensive, but that’s now the topic of conversation, not the issue uncontrollably staring at a woman is normal and immutable.
But more than that, it would serve to make people think twice when they start threads about making sure they aren’t being gross, offensive, exclusionary, etc. just for flavor, for rhetorical effect. Y’all don’t want warnings or even notes for any behavior that isn’t appalling because that’s “not fair” and “we can’t know where the line is” and “that would chill discussion”. This is another way to encourage people to remember that this is not a locker room and that words mean things.
It goes back rather far: “The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts” - Marcus Aurelius 161-180 CE
I read the OP generously but that part definitely suggests a problem. I’ve only seen this in one other man; He saw a woman and acted like a dog who’d seen a squirrel. You could practice attentional control with meditation or by looking at pictures/videos of women you find attractive than working on your ability to shift mental gears. You’re going to fail at it a lot at first and it’s going to take at least one month before you notice changes but it sounds like it would be worth it.
Another reason to ask people to restart these sorts of threads is that sometimes they don’t want to have discussion at all because they don’t really care. All they really want to do is talk about their dick or otherwise be gross. If invited to restart the thread, they won’t bother because they don’t care. If someone else finds the conversation interesting enough to continue, they can reframe it in a productive way.
See, I’m with you here if you tell me that you couldn’t help but notice her. I think it’s natural to be inclined to want to look at an attractive woman.
You lost me here. I think that it’s not typical for a person to be so distracted that they can’t even hold a conversation. That strikes me as creepy boorish behavior, which society has made very clear is inappropriate.
That’s not to say that I haven’t encountered guys who are overtly heterosexual, but it’s an annoying schtick, akin (in my mind) to an over-the-top flamboyant homosexual. It might just be somebody’s personality, but I personally find it tiring and, frankly, obnoxious.
…
But, on a larger point, I have sometimes thought that the difference between a gentleman and a pervert is really just a matter of tact. I always endeavor to be respectful in my interactions with my co-workers, but it’s true that I’ve had some fully formed dirty thoughts about some of those getting my respect. I’m grateful they can’t read my mind!
“Men” are not ultimately controlled by sex. If you are ultimately controlled by sex, or by anything else, that’s neither normal nor healthy.
I totally agree with this. Instead of setting the table for a straightforward discussion about sexual desire and how one handles it in various situations, the conversation based on gross braggadocio.
The whole “women just can’t understand” is a common tactic for refusing to do any serious introspection or working to change inequality in society.