I have been reading about a lot of gun store burglaries. With no proof at all, I suspect some of these are cases where the shop owner cooperates with (or is himself) the burglar. Such guns would of course find there way into illegal channels.
So, OK I have a thousand dollars worth of guns. If I arrange to sell them illegally to a trafficker would I get more or less than their legitimate value? Less because I most likely only know one buyer, or more because illegal guns are worth more?
Seeing the quality of guns taken off the streets in New York (the NYPD twitter feed), they seem to be of very low-quality. I cannot imagine many Bad Guys paying big bucks for a gun.
IANA criminal type but as a wild guess you’d almost certainly get less than market value for selling them illegally unless you’re selling them somewhere where they’re banned (and thus don’t have a regular market value). Where you make the added money is in the insurance claim for the goods “stolen” from you.
I figure I bought them wholesale. I have to make at least that much. It is (as you pointed out) the insurance that is the icing on the cake. I get to sell the guns twice.
I have often seen clerks in gun stores carrying a holstered pistol and would wonder who would be dumb enough to rob one (burglary is another matter). Then I read this in Snopes.
Felons will often pay a premium for guns. They could care less about the gun being stolen as they are already committing a felony just by carrying one.
Insurance fraud would come into play here but it would be more than that. Since firearms are involved you would have ATF entering the picture and most likely taking an active part is the investigation. It would be really stupid for a gun shop owner to take part in a scam such as that because the serial numbers are reported stolen and will remain in a national database accessible to any law enforcement in the country. Furthermore, most likely one or more of the guns will surface at some point, perhaps used in a crime or perhaps discovered in a routine traffic stop. Believe me, the criminal will roll over. I would not recommend it but if you plan on committing insurance fraud, don’t do it with guns.
Depends my reason for wanting one.
If I wanted it for self-defense / target shooting, I could get in trouble at some point in the future if PD comes to discover I have stolen property. Buying that gun would be at a discount from what I could get it for thru legitimate channels.
However, if I was buying it for some nefarious reason, I think I’d rather shoot someone with a gun that in no way can be traced back to me. I’d pay more for that gun than I could get it for thru legitimate channels.
There was an incident a few months ago in a town near me. 2 guys decided to rob a pawn shop (that specialized in guns). They came in early when the guy behind the counter was the only one there. He shot and killed one and the other guy got away (not sure if he got shot or not).
My opinion is how stupid do you have to be.
As for the OP, yeah, having the ATF involved, would not make it a good idea. But I would imagine, that you could sell them for more than the store price as they would be for people that would not be able to get a gun otherwise. Regular merchandise would be lower, but something that some people cannot buy legally, would likely send their prices up.
One “common” method is to wait until the store closes, then crash a (stolen) vehicle in the front and grab what you can and load it into a second vehicle. E.g. earlier this year. Some stores have concrete or metal bollards out front to limit this.
I call BS on the “causing the ammunition to explode” part, unless it means that the cardboard boxes got wrecked. The physics don’t work that way.
As for the OP, the reward/risk ratio is probably very low. You would have to contend with multiple law enforcement agencies. That doesn’t meant that it’s never happened, but the chances of it working are low. Some of the shady shops that get shut down do have unaccounted guns that could’ve been sold illegally, but without a declared theft.
There’s an alternative process:
[list=#]
[li]You have guns, they have money.[/li][li]You shoot them when they try to steal your guns.[/li][li]You have guns and money.[/li][li]Rinse, repeat.[/li][/list]
Criminals have a gun dealer who will sell them guns … and criminals are going to shoot the gun dealer first chance they get … now criminals don’t have a gun dealer who will sell them guns … so now where do criminals get their guns? …
What? 3 Glocks? Because @ wholesale that’s all you have.
I’ve owned a successful dealership for over 30 years. Filing a burglary claim would rain down not only an investigation from local law enforcement (of which I also am) but also from the BATFE. And my insurance company.
Every firearm in my inventory has to be listed in my bound book, which I have to show to the feds any time they demand. Eventually any gun I sold off the books is going to turn up in the hands of the wrong guy, and someone will always talk.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is little profit motive for a licensed dealer to sell to those who can’t legally have one. There are millions of people who can legally have one, so YTF take the risk?
If, for some funked up reason, I wanted to sell “off the books” I would do it legally (yes, there is a way). I would transfer some guns to my private collection (there is a clause for doing that) keep them in my private collection for 1 year, and then sell them out of my private collection as a private citizen. This negates the Brady requirement of ID and background checks.
But doing this too often will eventually bite a dealer in the ass. And it’s never really done. Not in large numbers, anyway. Like I’ve already said, there is enough money to be made in the legit market that most dealers wouldn’t even consider the OP’s scenario.
Any dealer faking a burglary is probably trying to pay the rent on his shop, not feed the black market.
