Does anybody have any statistics, ideally something which can be cited, on the breakdown of how black market guns get onto the black market in the USA?
I’m particularly interested in two possible sources, although having them all would be great:
1 - What percentage are stolen from legal owners?
2 - What percentage are purchased legally and then re-sold illegally?
I’m having a discussion with a buddy on the subject.
I don’t know what the “black Market” means.
Guns are generally legal to sell between individuals, without govt knowing or controlling the sale.
Can you describe what you mean by “black market”. Are you talking about stolen guns?
I’m asking about illegal gun purchases. I.e. where the purchaser is not legally entitled to purchase a gun. I suppose I would also include those people who may legally purchase a gun but for whatever reason purchase one in an illegal manner.
To make the terminology a little more precise, in OP’s category 2 there are a few specific types of illegal sales:
Straw purchases, where someone makes an otherwise legal purchase but then immediately transfers the gun to someone else.
Private sales made by a seller who really ought to have a dealer’s license. If someone is buying and selling enough to be a decent part time side business (or maybe even a self-financing hobby they really should have a license.
The particulars in both those examples can get really messy, and vary between states.
Maybe I’ve over complicated the question.
When a person who is not eligible to purchase a gun purchases a gun are they more likely to purchase a gun that was stolen from a legal owner or a legally owned gun from a legal owner (e.g. a corrupt gun shop)?
Thanks for your help lazybratsche. I am not a gun expert and I’m certainly no expert on gun laws in the USA (I’m not even an expert on gun laws in Canada) so I appreciate you aiding with clarification.
Without a cite, I am rather confident that the majority of firearms transactions where the purchaser is not legally entitled to purchase the gun involve the sale of a legal firearm from a legal owner who is ignorant of the purchaser’s legal right to own/buy firearms.
Person A has a gun for sale. Person B says he wants to buy it. Person A is unaware that Person B had a felony conviction for drug possession 10 years ago. That’s not really a black market. But you don’t really seem to be asking about real black market firearms.
“Black Market” firearms would be guns that are possessed, traded and sold in areas where they are banned. Country-wide, this means full-auto weapons that are not on the NFA Registry. In other states it may include AR-15s or any rifle with a removable magazine, or any pistol with a high capacity magazine. Laws vary by location.
Thanks Bear! I wonder if I can get a mod to change the title to “Illegal Gun Purchases”? That seems like it would be a better title based on this new information.
So far based on the replies, it seems like I’m correct in the discussion with my buddy. Ha! 
Thread title changed from Black Market Guns to Illegal Gun Purchases.
Any sort of statistics would be pure extrapolated speculation. The type of transactions that you seeking info on are not cataloged.
What are the points of disagreement between you and your friend?
Federal Firearms Licensees … from PBS (so it has to be true)
More or less the question. We were discussing gun control and I said (I will use quotes for simplicity but I suspect it these are not precise quotes): “The problem isn’t gun control, the problem is enforcement. Criminals get their guns from gun shops by purchasing them illegally.” He said: “I’m sure there are some gun shops that sell illegally, but I think they buy stolen guns from other criminals.” To which I said “That doesn’t make much sense. If a criminal steals a gun he’s not going to go into the arms business, he’s either going to use it or sell it to a fence or pawn shop.” To which he said “Exactly. The guns that are being sold are stolen guns not legal guns.” And I said “Well, I don’t know, you might be right. I know this website…”
Thanks Watchwolf!
Yet, there are criminals groups that buy stolen guns from other criminals and then resell them other criminals for a mark-up. A 2001 Duke University study estimates that approx. 500,000 firearms are stolen each year with about half of those being hand guns, which many are then resold illegally.
This is not likely, though there are exceptions. To run a gun shop you have to have a Federal Firearms License. A condition of having a FFL is that every transaction has to be documented (in legal parlance, a “bound book”) and the BATFE can examine your sales and compare it to your inventory any time they want to without warning. Therefore, the only way a gun shop can sell to a criminal (keeping in mind they have to run background checks on every sale) is to keep a weapon off-book. That is a SERIOUS crime. For what it takes to get a FFL and start up a business, knowing the penalties for noncompliance, you won’t see too much of that.
Does it happen? Sure. Is it the way criminals get their guns? Not a chance. It’s far easier to rob a house, have someone buy one for you, or just buy one in a private sale from some yahoo who doesn’t care who he sells to.
Well, keep in mind, I was paraphrasing to some degree. It was a long conversation after all, not just four sentences. My claim is that more of the guns used by criminals were legal guns (prior to them purchasing them); whereas, my friend claims that most guns used by criminals were stolen prior to ending up in their criminal hands.
Thanks for the link though! It has several references for me to check as well.
Thanks for the information Airman Doors. I was supposing a corrupt gun shop as just an example, but definitely good to know that it isn’t a good example. Again, I’m not an expert on these things which is why I came here. We’re fighting all sorts of ignorance today.
Thanks Bear for the post below (rather than make a new post).
You are both wrong. The majority are not coming from licensed gun dealers or criminals. The majority are most likely coming from private citizens making an otherwise legal sale to a person who cannot legally buy a firearm. This can occur with or without knowledge from the seller. The seller may either be ignorant of the buyer’s status, or he might not care. The thing about a stolen gun is that it remains stolen. It is always on the records as stolen and it will always be illegal for anyone to possess it except the original owner. This is not the case for these firearms that are purchased by convicted felons. If that felon later decides he wants to sell the gun, he can sell legally it to whomever he wants. Now that the firearm is owned by someone who is not a felon, everything is fine. So the gun itself can go back and forth between legal and illegal ownership. A stolen gun cannot. A Black Market gun cannot. They are always illegal.
Because of this, there isn’t much reason for someone to buy a stolen gun. It is much easier to simply buy a legal gun through private sale. For licensed dealers, the process of selling a gun is so restrictive and regulated, the risk far out weighs the rewards of selling to felons. Plus, they have to outright lie on their paperwork and use other peoples’ names and info on the 4473 and the background check, etc. Its just not happening.
Not terribly recent, but the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics published a study on firearms use by offenders.
With the “private sale” and “gun show” loopholes, it’s a wonder any criminals need to bother with the black market. Private sellers aren’t required to conduct a background check, so de facto they just have to know some folks and buy from them or go to a gun show to find such a seller. Some states don’t have this loophole, but there are neighboring states…
At which point the purchase becomes illegal. For a resident of one state to buy a firearm from a seller from another state requires involving an FFL and thus a background check.
About the only way that does not apply is if the buyer has property in that state where they reside part of the year - during that part of the year they could purchase from a seller in that state.
Interesting is the amount of self-policing going on: many individuals offering a gun for sale on gun fora require either transaction at an FFL or for the buyer to have a concealed carry license (cc) - meaning they at least underwent a back ground check in the last x years, where x varies by state. Of course this is by no means universal, but interesting nonetheless.
I always wondered - if the government were to offer a certificate stating you passed a background check on x date, I believe many sellers would require such for private sales. Were I a seller, and this were available, I would. And it wouldn’t (shouldn’t) set of any “next they’re coming for our guns” alarms. It’d be voluntary, private sales without it would still be possible, just less… attractive to responsible gun owners.