I have this kid...

Quick update on the OP:

Before going the therapist/evaluation route for my son, I took a deep breath, talked things over with my wife, had another heart to heart conversation with my son about what his thoughts and ideas on the matter are. Decided to make some changes with respect to my admonishing and punishments. He was so deep in the hole and it became obvious that it was just pointless to keep harping on the negative.

We changed some of his study habits. Tried to get him to be more methodical and organized with respect to his study routines. When I wrote the OP he had a 33.2% in math and hadn’t passed a test since the start of the year. This week he brought home a 25/26 on a math test. The rest of his marks in other subjects have been slowly rising as well.

So not out of the woods yet but I’m feeling a little more hopeful and more importantly I think he’s starting to regain some confidence in himself. Still a long way to go but at least things are starting to move in the right direction now. He may still need to do math in summer school. But at least he is not likely to flunk out the year.

That kid… if I didn’t love him so much I’d have probably killed him by now.

Thanks very much for the update… it can be so unsatisfying to follow a thread like this and then… no closure. Good luck to you and your son!

Didn’t see how old this was.

I didn’t see this when it was originally posted.

My son is 12 and acts very much like the OP’s son, except that my son doesn’t have that many friends and has trouble socializing with kids that aren’t already his friends.

We took him to get evaluated about a year and a half ago and found that he has depression and ADHD-PI. Even with his meds and visiting the therapist, he has problems in school. Very similar problems to the OP’s son where he will do the homework and not turn it in. Like a lot of responses here, he feels that he can skip a lot of the homework and ace the tests. He scores very high on the standardized testing but we struggle to keep his grades above a B.

We’ve tried reward based approaches in the past. Everything from money rewards for good grades, to the “you must do A before you get to do B”. When faced with such choices, he ALWAYS decides not to even try for the rewards. He’d much rather sit around and do nothing than do something that he doesn’t want to do to get the reward.

His favorite thing to do is watch youtube videos of people playing video games. He would rather watch people play the video games than play the video games himself. It blows my mind. Though he does play video games a bit, 90% of his free time is watching other people play.

With the help of his therapist and psychologist, we came up with a program where he is grounded from all electronics if any of his grades drop below a B. We also got the school to agree to an IEP. He was doing much better for a while, but his grades dropped from A’s and B’s to D’s and F’s by the end of the quarter. (The school has the teachers do all of their grade books online, so we get an email each morning with his progress. And he knows we get these emails.)

He loves to find loopholes that allow him to do as little as possible, so I think he let his grades drop at the end of the 3rd quarter thinking that it would all reset at the beginning of the 4th quarter. We didn’t think about this issue until we realized what was going on, so he is only grounded from electronics through Spring Break next week. But we were very clear that if it happened again, the consequences would be more severe for summer vacation.

I guess the whole point of this is let you know that you are not alone, and to hopefully give you an idea of the road you might be in for even if your son is diagnosed with ADHD and/or depression.

Also, I would suggest getting him evaluated. Getting a firm diagnosis helps to know which issues need to be addressed. The diagnosis will also give you access to tools (meds, IEP, coping mechanisms, therapy etc…) that would otherwise be unavailable to you.

I don’t like the thought of having my son on meds, but since we started the meds and therapy, he is doing so much better - both in school and socially - than he was last year. We hope the trend continues to the point where he becomes an active participant in his own life.

I only got this far in the thread so forgive me but it sounds like Monstro has nailed it with executive dysfunction. It’s kind of a pet topic of mine, but I am more attuned to causes/strategies for coping in seniors, not in kids.

Unlike monstro, however I think he should be evalutated. He knows already it is a problem and you are concerned. But use the term “evaluate for executive dysfunction” explicitly when you do talk to someone.

ETA now that I have read the whole thread I can commend what you are doing. Keep it up, obviously it is working. Good thing is kids can improve from dysfunction in this area. With seniors it is more like “slow down the losses.”

Alot of good advice and ideas…all I will add is what comes to mind. Some kids and parents are mismatched, one might be laid back and the other one a type A personality. Part of it could be due to if he is a more laid back type and you are more type A. Is it possible you could be at least in his opinion too much of a type A and he tends to shut down as a result? I know in my family, mom is a type b, and dad a classic type a. To my dad everything is urgent and needs to be done asap while my mom is more relaxed. I am a type b, and as a teenager it sometimes drove my dad crazy how I would be asleep after the alarm, he had been up and dressed an hour before. I understand there may be more to it,imposible to say from the internet but it could be part of the picture.

The thing is, kids need that kind of structure to 1) build habits, 2) keep a routine/structure in place, and 3) learn to do it on their own. Whether it’s condescending or not, you learned how to break down the “clean the house” process into small steps by being explained those small steps repeatedly and carrying through with those steps. You had to motivate yourself to start and work on it by yourself, but you had the consequence of Mom being angry if you weren’t working on it or done with it by the time she got home.

Every kid, even the bright and motivated ones are going to have stuff that’s difficult for them. Learning how to manage responsibilities and break big projects into small or more manageable pieces is a skill, and one that can be really, really, really daunting for kids his age. If it means sitting with him and working through each piece in a “guiding but not doing it for him” manner, then so be it. (The Socratic method can be great for this-- you ask leading questions and he has to figure it out.) The most difficult part about this is keeping it from being a “I need someone else to break it down for me or supervise me in order to get it done” process-- Nava’s example is pretty typical of what happens when they understand how to break down the process but never got the “do it on your own” part of it down.

I work with college students who are daunted by breaking down an assignment into manageable pieces: many of them haven’t been exposed to research projects, especially ones that require the use of databases or specific sources in general. Some of them are eager to make it more manageable, and others are so dejected by what they see as an overwhelming and unnecessary bit of work that they never really learn to break any large process into a manageable set of steps. It’s a skill they’re going to need to be functional adults, and it does worry me that so many students at the college level come unprepared to do this unassisted.

I suspect that any parent might come across as an A-type compared to their C-type (chillaxed) teen. :slight_smile:

That’s not really the issue here though. I’m firmly in the B-type category by most standards.

I do think that what monstro said about executive function has merit in this case. It accounts for his limited skills in prioritizing and breaking down larger tasks into smaller, more manageable, components and then following through with their execution. He gets lost in the big picture and melts into the background to avoid dealing with the overwhelming feeling of it all.

So yeah, for now it’s going to be a lot of back to basics and encouragement until he acquires the skills that he needs to get him through high school and college and ultimate, his life.

Also, interesting insights by Nava and nashiitashii

Thanks, all.

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned here is sleep dysfunction. I woudl strongly recommend that you start with a sleep study. What you describe sounds a lot like micro-sleeps.

Watch for this: When your son blinks, do the bottoms of his eyes come up to meet the top lid? Or does the top lid come down to meet a motionless lower lid?

If the bottom lid is rising, that’s not blinking, it’s a mind desperate for REM. And just because he’s unconscious for 10 hours doesn’t mean he’s had restorative sleep. Does he snore? Kick in his sleep? Move aorund the bed a lot?

I can’t say strongly enough: if you’re going to do only one thing, get a sleep study.

Okay, now I’m going to be staring at him like I’m a mental patient, waiting for him to blink. :eek: :wink:

That’s what I love about this board - endless data points to consider.