Lemme put it this way. I’ve gotten into ballroom dancing lately, and there are times when I have this incredibly strong deep seated suspicion that I’m being led by the girl, rather than vice versa! I can’t prove it, but I swear my decisions aren’t my own… I know it doesn’t make sense.
I’m a very nice guy, by all accounts, but I would never pay for a girl’s meal. I’ll be there for her whenever she needs me, but I just don’t see why finance should have absolutely anything to do with an equal relationship. I hope girls aren’t taking this personally w/o letting me know, b/c most of the girls around me claim to be independent.
It’s not true what they say about all girls being softies at heart, is it?
Maybe it’s just a different way of looking at relationships, kumaraka. I’ve bought my boyfriends gifts and dinners, and enjoy having that reciprocated - although it rarely was.
I would have settled for the person being there for me. That was not a common occurance, either.
Oh, I see. That’s different. If a girl or guy bought me dinner every now and then, I’d certainly appreciate the gesture and enjoy my chance to return it.
Hey, you should definitely have people that are there for you. I’d rather spend all of my time with boring social outcasts who valued me than cool people. In fact, my close friends are loosers. Maybe you could find some losers of your own.
They have so much clearer of an understanding of what really matters in a friendship…
I think I read somewhere that you are a teacher of 14 year olds. The relationship between grown up teacher and child student is VERY different than, say, a painting teacher and his 22 year old student. THe entire relationship is differnet. You aren’t even expected to respect your teacher if you’re already grown up… just learn whatever he/she teaches you.
I see a SLIGHT possibility of misuse of power when one considers his students potential mates, but rather than say no teacher should ever date a student, even after finals, I’d rather just advocate making every effort to be an unbiased proff, nomatter how attracted you are to a student.
I teach at a college. I am specifically forbidden in my employment agreement from dating anyone who is a student in any class in the entire school because it would be an inappropriate usage of my position as an instructor here. Even if the student is not in one of my classes, I could potentially abuse my standing as an instructor to unfairly influence the student’s grade in another class, or pull favors and extra weight with administration to cut them breaks or to make life harder for them.
It’s one of two things that I can be fired without notice for. The administration realizes that all of the faculty has a position of superiority over the students, and that bias or misuse of power would be too hard to avoid.
My employer also would not like to be involved in any sexual harassment lawsuits should an instructor/student relationship go off on a horrible tailspin. That’s especially understandable, considering the position that a school is put in if an accusation is made against an instructor, regardless of whether the students are adults.
So, my students (and all the students here) are adults. Some of them are older than me, and some are younger. There is no way in hell I would ever date ANYBODY currently on the attendance rolls so long as I am employed here.
Since when did “legal” equal “ethical” or “right”? I’m a lawyer, and I’ve never thought that. Indeed, am important part of the concept of civil liberties is to preserve the legality of unethical acts or views (see the ACLU and just about every KKK case.}
And since when did “legal” equal “none of our business”? If your sister’s husband was blowing the couple’s joint money on his mistress and you found out, I think that it is your business to tell Sis, even though Hubby’s actions are all perfectly legal.
But back to the topic at hand:
Slight? How about massive? Power can be misused in a “positive” way as well. Is teach spending extra time tutoring students he may want to date, and not giving that same time to other students? Is he giving potentional fuck-buddies the benefit of the doubt in grading? Does he instill into these women a feeling that they owe him a debt?
The potential here for abuse is so high that a better rule is to not do it at all. Hell, the fact that he’s done this four times indicates that the ex-students aren’t his “once in a lifetime” soulmates.
I would discount the one-time dating of an ex-student (not in favor of it, but I recognize that absolute rules are usually silly), but the pattern here is disturbing.
Yeah, I think this is a more reasonable position. I guess what I was saying is that the categoric denial of love a teacher might feel for a student is not the way to go.
But a pattern is also a sign that the person is not living up to his responsibility to try to be unbiased.
I’m not sure what you mean by this. If someone is truly a “grown-up”, they respect others. And how does your statement relate to a dating situation? Do you mean that underage students are expected to be in awe of their teachers, and once they outgrow that, they and the teacher are equals?
:rolleyes: Pretentious bullshit, if you ask me. By setting herself apart by insisting on weird capitalization, she’s calling attention to her name. [/hijack]
As far as the issue at hand, I fully agree with SuaSponte. Ultimately, I don’t think that there is anything wrong with dating a former student–hey, who can predict where and when we’ll meet Mr. or Ms. Right? But dating former students almost exclusively–well, Houston, that’s a problem.
I teach college level students. That means all of my students are adults. They are expected to show respect for me and for everyone else in the room or they do not remain in my class.
If they show disrespect for me, or for anyone else in the class, they can’t learn what I’m teaching. I’m paid to teach adults, not to babysit a bunch of disrespectful juveniles. Unlike children, the law doesn’t require I keep them there, so if they act in a manner not befitting my class, they’re out.
Just as additional information for the discussion, take a look at this CNN story on this very topic. Apparently more and more schools are forbidding student/teacher relationships, regardless of age.
Great. One less hypothetical area I could meet women. Next thing you know employers won’t want coworkers dating because it creates an uncomfortable work environment… what if one of them gets promoted? What if they break up?
sigh
I’m about left with the friggin’ laudr-o-mat. And I’ve yet to see a girl take her eyes off anything but her book or panties there.
I love the way there are groups of outspoken men who wonder why they can’t get dates, and groups of outspoken women who wonder why they can’t get dates, and then a guy gets a date in what seems an innocent enough manner and all of a sudden there are twisted power-dynamics and crazy moral issues involved. Frankly, I don’t know how anyone manages to hook up at all. I’m waiting for sperm banks to become the normal method of reproduction, mandated by a society too stuffy to let people get together in a manner they see fit.
I looked at that, and it seems targeted towards professors who date those who are being evaluated by them. I think most people agree that this is unacceptable – the gray area, it seems, is when the student is no longer being evaluated in the classroom.
I understand that a lot of people think there’s something creepy about this guy’s trend of dating students, but if there is no evidence that these relationships have harmed anyone, they should get past that. What do his exes think? Does he always seem to get in nasty breakups? Any restraining orders? If not, then you’d best assume that he isn’t abusing any power imbalance, at least until some evidence points that way.
But who is it a problem for, exactly? Not the teacher in question, if (as it seems) he finds an adequate source of companionship that way (“pathetic” in a stranger’s eyes or not). Not the former students in question, if they are willingly entering relationships with him and are content to do so. Who else is involved besides the two people in the relationship to begin with, and why should those third parties’ priorities take precedence?
Mind you, I’m with the people who believe teachers shouldn’t date their own students, as it creates a definite conflict of interest situation; and to a lesser extent I can at least see the logic between forbidding any teacher/student romances at an institution. Even if the student isn’t taking classes from the professor in question, the professor is part of a group (the faculty) which can have an effect on the student’s educational experience, and thus conflict of interest issues can still arise.
But seeing a “problem” just because the teacher tends to date people he met in class? I don’t get that at all. Lots of students date people they’ve met in classes and no-one sees that as a “problem”. Is it “pathetic” of someone to date classmates rather than people they met at bars? Or to date people from their hometown rather than jet-setters from the Caymans? As long as they’re happy, why should anyone see a “problem” with it?
Hate to cast further gloom on your day, but some companies do that. Where I work, dating cow-orkers isn’t specifically forbidden, but it is in a supervisor/supervisee situation. Someone I used to work with had to turn down a manager position, because it would have made him his own girlfriend’s supervisor.
Fuck. When they drew the lines at morgues I said, “It has to stop here. It justhas to.”
But, yeah, after I posted that I thought, "Wait a minute. I remember the “scandal” at McDonalds when I was a manager and my girlfriend was just a regular worker (well, she was a “Crew Trainer” ooo! Now there’s a conflict of interest).
well at 34 I have given up on virtually every silly ass dating rule I ever came across. now as long as they are over 21 and theres mutual attraction I couldnt care less what anyone thinks.
the only thing younger women have over older is that they have a tendency to be single, instead of “getting a divorce” or flat out fucking married.
with that as my general attitude I still think this guy has found himself a way to get some young hotties in the sack on a regular basis and if hes not hurting the girls in anyway then more power to him.
I really don’t see anything wrong with it. Not even with it being “a pattern”… I mean how many guys have the “pattern” of dating women they meet at a bar? Or students who have the “pattern” of dating other students? You tend to meet and get to know people who you are around on a daily basis. Nothing creepy about it.
Hell there was a teacher at my high school who is now married to one of his ex students. They didn’t start dating until she was in college, for those who might get icked out. And he taught Senior English, so she was probably 17 or 18 when they met.
Teaching is a position of power, authority, trust, and responsibility. It is “creepy” to be in the position of a teacher and to look at the people for whom you have a responsibility as objects of lust, or even romance. It is not the same as dating people with whom you share an equal position, such as being classmates, or meeting in a bar. It is an inappropriate abuse of position and situation.
I understand that there are many happy relationships which began in the classroom, but it is my impression that the healthy incidence of these is quite rare. The individual described in the OP, with his penchant for having sex with those who have been subject to his authority as a teacher, strikes me as being maladjusted and predatory.
