Oh great; now that we’ve got an objective measurement, I now know who I can push around a little, who I can press into slavery, and who I can torture, due to their rating on the mouthbreather scale of human worth. :rolleyes:
Not that I don’t see where you’re coming from, but do you really trust people to make right decisions regarding someone’s worth? Who are you to say?
Of Course I have compassion, especially for the kids. I’m not saying the woman deserved it, I’m saying she was STUPID. There’s a difference. I have absolutely no sympathy for the killer, but all this hyperbolic talk about “torturing” him is disturbing and childish.
No, you did say she deserved it. Your words were “the mother has to take some of the blame.” AND, I may point out, you said “I have nothing against torturing the murderer”, and now you’re saying it’s disturbing and childish.
Which is it Dio? Or are you just bringing up bizarre arguements to garner attention?
You said the woman should mind her own business. Drug Lords and Gangs taking over HER neighborhood where HER FAMILY LIVED, WAS her business. If more people made their neighborhoods their business instead of ignoring crime on the off chance they’ll be fucking firebombed we’d have much more stable communities.
J
You also called her a BITCH.
Just as I can use the EONWE system to say that someone who murders innocent children has the same worth as Ghandi. (You may want to roll those eyes at yourself.)
If it is clear that someone has shown themselves to not give any regard to other innocent lives, the value of their life flies right out the window, as far as I am concerned. I understand that a lot people cling to the “all life is valuable” idea. I just think it’s fucking stupid, especially when you’re talking about someone who is responsible for burning a family. Push them around, press them into slavery, torture them, or fucking vaporize them… If you can’t function without regard to other innocent people, I don’t give a rat’s ass what happens to you.
Who am I to say what people are worth? I’d say that my take on these sorts of things carries just about as much weight as yours does – that is to say not very much. (I’m working with the assuming you aren’t a judge somewhere). It’s an opinion. I don’t delude myself into thinking that it’s anything more, just as I would hope you don’t about your opinions.
On the “scale of human worth”
Someone who intentionally burns small children to death has is worth less that the average member of society. You don’t agree?
And we do use them for slave labor; it’s called a prison work detail.
And we can kill them (albeit not torture); it’s called the death penalty.
You also called this woman a bitch. She did what she felt to be the right thing. What police wish everyone would do.
Your attitude of “blame the victim” really pisses me off. Do you also blame women who get raped while wearing short skirts? She didn’t make that evil shitstain firebomb her house. She is not responsible for what he did.
Ok, you got me on the “torture” contradiction. I shouldn’t have said torture him. I was being facetious. Lock him up and throw away the key. I hope he gets gang raped. But literal, state-sanctioned torture, come on, bad precedent.
I apologize for calling her a bitch.
Saying she bears some responsibility is not the same thing as saying she deserved it. Nothing that happens outside her physical property is any of her goddamn business. It was stupid. IT WAS STUPID for her to go fucking around with drug dealers. It was more important for her to be self-righteous about drugs than it was to take care of her children. That’s the bottom line. If she hadn’t gone crusading, then she wouldn’t have gotten fire bombed.
So, what you’re saying is no one should ever call the police for illegal activities they witness? What about a small child being beaten? I guess that’s no one’s business. What about a pedestrian that gets hit by a car? I guess no one should call an ambulance. We should all stop voting too, because what happens outside our own houses is no concern of ours, right?
Oh definitely. Of course it was within this woman’s rights, and some might even say responsibilities, to fight the conditions in her neighborhood. As others have already said, someone has to do something, or else we end up with horrid Kitty Genovese type stories that make us all feel more and more ashamed of our species.
I’m not sure what Diogenes’s problem is–what with the name-calling and blatant fantasies (she “didn’t care about her kids”?! The mom in me is giving you a very mean face right now Dio). I was just agreeing with a small part of what he was saying; namely, that the mother did play a tragic role in the whole thing. Who knows if the police protection would have made a difference either way? Not me–all I know is that if the home where I slept each night with my five children was firebombed because of something that I was doing and planned to continue doing, I’d certainly accept a little witness protection.
Diogenes, I see you’ve apologized for the name calling, which makes me feel a little better. However, I still feel that your position is a little misguided. We don’t know enough about the story to know what kind of conditions these dealers were creating in the neighborhood. Now, if they were just slinging some dime bags of weed out of a couple apartments then yeah–she was a little overzealous. However, I find it hard to believe that the type of people who would firebomb the opposition’s home–five kids included–were harmless little pests, best left ignored. This was seemingly a situation thick with potential violence, it’s just too bad that when it exploded it was targeted at one of the few who had been willing to speak out against it.
bella
So Diogenes, you ever done anything to make the world a better place?
Or do you just not give a damn.
I guess in Diogenesland we just let everything slide because to take a stand against anything is ‘stupid’. Boy, THAT’S sure a good ideology to base a society on!
Of course you should call the cops if there is an immediate emergency or any kind of violent activity. I’m not really talking about calling the cops, I’m talking about a gratuitous CRUSADE. Whether it’s right or wrong is irrelevant. It’s fucking DANGEROUS. I never said the dealers were harmless. Obviously a lot of them are sub-human scum, but that’s my POINT. It’s not a MORAL issue, it’s simple practicality. Don’t go poking tigers with a stick. Keeping my child safe is more important to me than being right.
Maybe I was over the top to say she didn’t care about her kids, but she should have thought things through more. She should have found a way to get out of that neighborhood, and she for FUCK sakes should have accepted police protection.
Wabbit:
As I alluded to before, I spent two years in Americorps tutoring and mentoring inner-city kids. I have also volunteered for any number of charitable activities from ringing bells for the Salvation Army to building houses for habitat for humanity to running a free after-school club for inner-city kids.
I currently work with developmentally disabled adults.
I try to help in ways will acually be PRODUCTIVE unlike this mother’s crusade. These are also efforts which will not bring a shitstorm down on my family.
Actually, if her actions were right or wrong is extremely relevant, more relevant in my mind than how dangerous it is to take on drug dealers. I’ve got news for you Diogenes: sometimes it’s DANGEROUS to do the right thing. In fact, I’d say that’s true most of the time but that’s still no reason to let a bunch of parasites and thugs walk all over you. If you’re so worried about DANGER, then crawl under a rock somewhere and hide. I’m guessing the rest of the human race won’t miss you much.
Why is reporting illegal activity a “gratuitous crusade?” You apologise for belittling the woman and then you just do it again.
Sure, building houses and mentoring kids is productive. So is making sure those same kids don’t get off-ed on the way home. In fact, I would say providing a safe, stable environment is a critical first step to rebuilding a community. She was attempting to do that. Should she have accepted police protection? Sure, but unlike you I’m not prepared to damn this woman’s memory just because she deluded herself into thinking that these drug-dealing parasites subscribed to the same values as the rest of us.
She had no right to bring that danger down on her kids. I’ll ignore the ad hominem.
Like I said before, she didn’t make them kill her. She was doing her civic duty, testifying against the murderer’s cousin on an assault charge. That’s why he specifically firebombed her house. So, should she have not testified?
“You had no right to be in that place where you were mugged.”
“You deserved to be raped because of the clothes you wear.”
“You deserved to get hit becuase you go to bars where people drink.”
Blame the victim! Its a wonderful and easy way to cover your own shortcomings!
Miskaotonic, your post is complete horseshit. I never said anything like that. I have repeatedly said that she didn’t deserve to be murdered, but it was a reasonably forseeable probability that engaging in a personal crusade would lead to violent retribution. She should not have subjected her children to such danger. She made her own children targets. She KNEW this and yet she rejected police protection.
Luna, if she was subpoenaed then she had no choice but to testify, but she should have made sure that her family was protected. She was stupid to turn down police protection.