I Join Michael Stipe In Losing My Religion

In My Humble Opinion
41

If you’re like me, you wake up in the middle of the night worrying about all kinds of different things. I recently woke up worrying over whether I’d lost my keys. My keys were on the nightstand, where they always are. People have all kinds of nighttime worries with no foundation in reality- why should your fire-and-brimstone ones mean your religion was right, when my worry about my keys didn’t mean my keys were actually lost?

Here you go. Beliefnet has all kinds of interesting religion-related stuff. I like some of their columnists, especially Rabbi David Wolpe

That’s all any of us, of any faith, can ever do.

I remember thinking about this when I was nine or so- “There are all these different religions in the world, how do we know which one is right?” I eventually came to the conclusion that there is no One True Faith, but different religions (or atheism) work for different people, and what’s important is what you do and how you treat others, not what you believe.

42

I’m an atheist, but I can’t say I “embraced atheism”. It wasn’t something I strove for, it was more a realization that I fit the term.

OTOH, maybe you mean to publicly idetify yourself as an atheist, which I must warn you can be kind of rough. My dad beat me over it when I was a kid – I wouldn’t go to church any more starting about age 12. Even now – and I’m pushing 50 – I occasionally get mild harassment over it. People will question your morality, your honesty and/or your sanity far more than they would if you told them you were, say, a Mormon or a Hindu. They are far more willing to accept your choice of another faith than they are to accept that you have none.

43

I look it like this.

All religions were created for one reason.

To keep people in line.

Since the dawn of man, leaders have had to handle people who simply didn’t want to cooperate with the group or tribe they were in. In some instances these individuals were killed or banished, but often their “services” were needed so it was advantageous to keep them around. Some of them were good hunters or just plain smart so it was better to keep them around.

These leaders came up with an idea that they presented to their group. And that idea was that there was an all powerful god. This god would punish you if you were “evil” and displayed behavior that hurt the group. Sometimes this god would punish you right away, but often times this god would just “remember” your actions. And when you died he would send to Hell! The leaders would then describe the worst place imaginable to these people and try to scare them straight.

The leaders also came up with the concept of going to heaven after one dies. This was so the “good” people would continue to cooperate and the people who weren’t so good had an incentive to change their ways.

This is what religion is. Let go of it. Its not real.

I’m not saying that Jesus, Buddha and other fine individuals weren’t good people with great ideas, but their goal was not to create some religion that would get hijacked by charlatans. Their goal was to tell people how to live in harmony with others. And you don’t need a religion to do that.

44

I never had very strong faith. As a little kid I believed there was some kind of god who created the world, but church bored the crap out of me. I only went to Sunday school a couple of times; all I remember is that the story of dude that got swallowed by a whale sounded really dumb. As an older kid I started reading about Greek and Norse mythology, and then I started thinking that if there was such a thing as a divine entity at all, polytheism made more sense than monotheism - all the bad things in the world were a result of the warring gods’ struggles made manifest on earth.

As a teenager I developed a strong opposition to organized religion that hasn’t entirely gone away, although I still believed there was something beyond physical reality. I believed that more harm than good was done in the name of one religion or another, but that there was still something to be said for exploring one’s own spirituality. I got involved in Eckankar briefly, mostly because my mom was into it, but I lost interest after a few years.

As an adult, I’ve gradually come to the conclusion that there is only the physical universe, and nothing lies beyond. Searching for god or spiritual truth is a harmless diversion at best, and sometimes twisted into something monstrous. There is no such thing as intrinsic value or meaning to the universe or anything in it; only a conscious mind may assign value or meaning to a thing, and only to a conscious mind do such concepts have any importance. It is comforting to believe that there is some divine plan, some higher purpose, but to me that is a false and hollow comfort. The universe is vast, cold, and uncaring. We must make our own way in it, set our own goals, take responsibility for our own lives.

45

Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and keep going. Get out of bed in the morning. Keep living your life—the rest is just minutae.

46

I’m not all that comfortable with the phraseology of “embracing your disbelief”, because it seems to me that the rejection of one particular irrational ideology by itself would provide insufficient guidance for leading a worthwhile life.

Personally, I found it meaningful to identify what I did believe in, rather than what I rejected. So I consider myself a humanist. If I describe my personal philosophy in terms of theism I’d probably consider the word “nontheist” more accurate - I think the idea of supernatural “gods” is simply irrelevant to life and the world as I perceive them. And I reject ALL supernatural. So why single out theism. I’m just as equally a-witchcraft, a-fairies, etc. To me, they are all equally as irratiuonal and unnecessary to leading a “good life.”

You might find some comfort in reading about other world religions. Once you learn more about other beliefs, and realize how silly their supernatural aspects sound, you may find yourself more comfortable in acknowledging that the supernatural aspects of christianity are just as silly and unfounded. Billions of folks believe in those faiths just as fervently as christians do theirs. I assume you have no difficulty rejecting those many faiths - rejection of christianity is just one more.

Such a study will also allow you to focus on what worthwhile tenets the faith systems share that may appeal to you. Whether a concept of fairness, belief in the value of the individual, human potential, whatever. You may find those provide a firmer foundation for your own personal philosophy, than a somewhat arbitrary supernatural being, the hope of heaven, and the fear of hell.

You also might benefit from seeking organizations that are open to people conducting such personal inquiries. Unitarian Univeralism proclaims itself to be dedicated to a “free and responsible search for truth and meaning.” Other groups include secular humanists, or ethical societies. With any luck, one such group may be active in your area.

You can also get some support from periodicals such as Humanist, Skeptical Inquirer, Skeptic, or numerous books by authors such as Sagan and Dawkins. If nothing else, they will let you realize that you are not alone, and that questions such as you are having have been asked by other people (and perhaps phrased better than you might be able to yourself.)

And there are always the godless heathens who infest these boards during our brief hiatus before an etrnity in the lake of hellfire!

47

Anaamika,

I had a pretty similar experience of exploration of other religions and studying, etc. And when I woke up one day and had the same realization as you - that I didn’t need to be afraid of not believing mostly - it was an amazingly liberating experience.

So to the OP, I think this thread should show you that there have been many in the same place as you, and eventually, wherever you end up - it will work out. You need to just look into things yourself - read what you can and try to understand things from as many perspectives as possible and see where your philosophy fits in.

48

But isn’t the real you the one now, the one where you don’t believe? Your parents put religion on you like some old ones put a dress on the little boy they got instead of a girl. The real you is throwing off the artificial covering.

I find atheism very comforting, in a way. I can mourn when bad things happen, but I don’t need to ask why or try to explain it. I can deal with the consequences, and deal with making things better, not ask where I or they went wrong.

49

Everyone, I apologize profusely for not keeping up with my thread. You’ve all been so great and I promise, I’ll definitely be mulling over this in the long days and weeks ahead. I’m even hoping that my brother might find something comfort in it too, seeing as how scared he is as he comes closer (or so it appears) to really dealing with the heavy shit of cancer. Anyway, I really wish I could go on and continue responding to each and every reply because that’s the respect and attention they deserve. However, at the moment I’m having a bit of a difficult time just microwaving pizza and then remembering to eat.

If anyone would like the individual response I’d love to have given otherwise, please don’t hesitate to PM and I promise to follow up like I would’ve done initially, even if it kills me. Thank you for all the thoughtfulness, help, support and love. I really did (do) feel that. This place is such a special, integral part of my life that I can’t imagine existing without it. The folks here are why. Honest. Y’all are the salt of the earth indeed.

50

I was never really big into religion, but every other member of my family at least believes in god, except me, for about 5 years. At this point I have no problem saying, to myself and others, that there is no god. I used to believe lukewarmly, then I questioned, I did research, I made a decision. It’s become second nature, and just like how I don’t question that I have green eyes or am left-handed, I don’t even give it a second thought. I am a hundred percent convinced that the whole Christianity thing is bullshit and silly and sometimes lethal and nothing that I want anything to do with.

What comes harder to me is coming out to others. The astonishment, embarrassment, public prayer, that I come across on a regular basis from those whom I let know that I am atheist. Everyone wants to save my soul, condemn me to hell, pity me, or invite me to their church, at which I am certain to be SAVED!, and/or otherwise attempt to convince me that their personal religion is the THE ONE, as if I’m a lost soul in need of some religion, particularly theirs. You get wary as to who you want to share being an atheist with, after awhile. At least that’s been my experience.

Then there’s dating, Atheist Style. Get used to all kinds of reactions, from “I can’t be with a non-believer” to “It’s okay, just don’t tell my mom”. Don’t even get me started on the dating.

Atheism is not always easy breezy, but I can’t imagine even pretending to be any other way.

51

Think of it this way. (I’m more or less lifting this from someone famous, but I forget who)

You didn’t believe in or worship Zeus or Thor at any point, did you? And you know your reasons why you didn’t.

Now you have one more god you don’t believe in and eventually you’ll find it’s for more or less the same reasons that you don’t believe in Zeus and Thor.

52

I read an interview with Michael Stipe in which he said that it had nothing to do with religion, that it’s just a Southern phrase, to “lose your religion” means “to be at your wits’ end”.

[IMHO]
As for religion, go ahead and lose it. Set yourself free. Live by what you know to be right, not by some translated, edited, misinterpreted and PR-spun, fourth-hand account of one guy with some neat ideas from a couple of millennia ago. Organised religion produces guilt, misery and hatred, although I will admit it has led to some rather tasty architecture down the years. Private faith is a different matter, but I prefer to have faith in the joy of existence.
[/IMHO]

53

While I’m a (somewhat-practicing, I don’t go to Mass if I won’t understand it) Catholic, I’m not the same brand of Catholic as my parents. The God they taught me about was the God of Fear (and this was during the “Jesus Loves You” years, so it didn’t mesh with what I was getting in school and church); I believe in the God of Freedom. At age 12 or so (I remember the moment clearly but can’t tell you the date) there was one day when I was >< this far from jumping off our balcomy (10th floor) over my inability to please them - and, according to their rant, to please that God of Punishment. I closed the balcony doors saying “I refuse to believe that God’s a moron!”

This has caused conflicts with the Parental Units, some worse than others. But I knew that I could not force myself into their cruel, cruel beliefs.

The beliefs you’ve held at different times were correct for you at those times. But you don’t have to believe. You’re the only person who can live your life; you have to life the best you can… and that means embracing yourself, beliefs and disbeliefs and logic and illogic and fears and virtues and - everything that is you!

Love and Peace,
Nava

54

To me, Hell isn’t so much “eternity with Satan” as “eternity without God.”

And if God is that guy the Parentals talked about, Christ, get me a ticket to Hell pronto!

55

It used to scare me. As I felt myself drifting further from belief, I worried that if I were to die before I resolved my doubts, I’d go to hell. In fact that was probably the major obstacle impeding my progress.

It took me awhile, but eventually I began to think about it logically rather than emotionally. To me it seemed that for the most part, sending a person to hell to suffer for eternity(!!) is a pretty crappy thing to do. God supposedly will do this just for not acknowledging his existence/supremacy. That’s pretty vain, and pretty spiteful, and if you ask me, pretty freaking repulsive behavior. A God that would do that or allow it is no better than a man-- indeed, most men are not nearly so petty. I came to the conclusion that honestly, I don’t care if that God exists or not, because I wouldn’t worship it anyway. I would rather suffer eternally than worship something so childish and despicable just because I’ll be spanked if I don’t.

Anyway, I’m sure that’s not how most people arrive at their peace, but it worked for me. I’m certainly not afraid of hell anymore. If it’s all a mythology, I lose nothing. If it turns out it isn’t, and God is cool, I lose nothing. If he’s sadistic, I go to hell proud for not pandering to a sadistic God.

56

Besides that, if God were indeed that petty, how do you know He’s even telling the truth? Maybe he leads you to believe that following Him gets you to heaven, then sends you to hell anyway just to screw with you. It would be completely illogical to hold allegiance to a God you didn’t believe was benevolent.

57

Not necessarily. If you believed that God held all the cards and there was no way you could possibly win if you went against him (“Your arms too short to box with God”, as the title of the show says), fear could be a very powerful motivation. If God says do this or you’ll burn in Hell for eternity, and you were raised to believe that, it’s not illogical at all to do what he supposedly says. It’s not very dignified, but it isn’t illogical.

58

People can be in a spiritual or physical hell, but I don’t believe it’s a domain somewhere out there in the vast emptiness or whatever.
People can be despondent, in despair, heartbroken; under siege, suffering from torture, wrongful imprisonment, chronic pain, war, and mostly a lot of things that we humans inflict on each other. Hell is hell on earth. “Hell is other people,” as Sartres is supposed to have said.
It doesn’t have to be this way, at least not to the degree that it currently is. People could have the abundant life, the heaven, the truth, the peace, if they started treating others and caring for them the way Jesus and others recommended. If only people would stop hating, wasting time persecuting people for not believing the way they want them to, holding up nasty picket signs at gay people’s funerals, fighting with scientists over the age of the earth, or holing up in a bunker awaiting the end of the world.
I know—that’s asking a lot.

59

This is the part I like !

Satan better hope I don’t show up on his doorstep. I got hard wood for him. :smiley:

60

And this post says about all you need to know about religion. It’s a human invention designed to scare people and get them to toe the line, constantly feel guilty and, as an added bonus, marshall them against perceived ungodly/heathen enemies. Waste big chunks of your life fretting over religion and spoil your short time on this planet by worrying that you’re going to hell, not for being a bad person, but for failing to “believe”? Not for me.

Surely as a race we are now intelligent enough to be able to be do good things and be nice to each other without the threat of fire and brimstone and an eternity of sharp pointy things?