Back in the day I could only cope with 1 and a half episodes - it just felt the most dreadfully episodic, sentimental liberal wank. Left it until now. No idea why I suddenly decided to go back to it but it’s taken 24 days to binge 7 x 22 so 154 episodes at 40 minutes a go: Whoa!
This is slightly pathetic for a middle aged guy to say but if one thing kept me going it was the Josh and Donna thing. That and the screwball comedy - totally wasn’t expecting it to be so plain funny.
I got a very strong sense of the writing changing from S4 but didn’t realise until the end Sorkin bailed out at the end of S3. I thought it improved immensely in S4 - the quality of writing and and cleverness of the mirroring arcs. Maybe that’s why I liked Josh/Donna so much.
Really, really had enough with the nonsense geo-political speak and that damn Situation Room.
I like Matt Santos. Other than that I thought it was a lot better when Rob Lowe was still there and Sorkin was there. After he left the stories got a bit simpler, but, the early seasons had so much Gravitas…
I loved the first four seasons, but quit watching shortly after Sorkin left. I felt the quality went down, and I hated the kidnapping plot.
A few other notes, spoilered just in case:
I hate that Josh and Donna ended up together - they never seemed like a good romantic match to me. I was glad that CJ and Danny ended up together. I think Toby leaking state secrets is completely out of character and just plain awful writing. In fact, the character development of several people in the later seasons seems unforgivable to me. (I have read about and seen a few of the later episodes, obviously.)
Yep, the were often straining for storylines.Within that confine the writing at times was superb, even sublime. The direction as well at times, and I’m sure other behind the scenes skills - must be great to be able to hone your abilities in such an intense ongoing situation.
First time around I guess I was unlucky to chance on the episode where the old guy filibusters a bill. That was cringingly sentimental.
My son and I are working our way through the series. He has a big man crush on acerbic Toby. We’re nearing the end of S4 now. I remember giving up somewhere along S5 when it was on NBC because the time on the show got out of whack, but we’re going to muscle through.
The kidnapping storyline was melodramatic. But so was the earlier assassination attempt storyline so Sorkin was as much at fault as the later writers were. The reality is that a lot of the plots were melodramatic but the writing made it good melodrama.
And the setting helped a lot. We could accept that level of self-absorption in a White House setting. A few years later, it looked ridiculous when we saw it in a television studio setting.
I thought that was goofy, too. People familiar with firearms blasting away with pistols instead of a rifle. It was Josh’ reaction to that I didn’t like.
Esp. Josh and Donna. It was the timing; totally Carry Grant/Katherine Hepburn.
The other stuff with like CJ got old quickly: yada yada Kasakstan yada yada in my office yada yada something about a fish.
I didn’t mind the kidnapping so much (great use of Angel by Massive Attack) as solving every problem in the country and most of the world.
Also Stockard Channings one-dimensional schtick drove me batshit. I had no idea Elizabeth whatsit was in this before Mad Men. Wouldn’t have liked to have to choose between the eldest and middle sister …
Pedeconferencing. They made a joke of it once when Josh and Sam had their pedeconference, then realized they were following each other rather than heading toward their own destination.
I thought it was a great show and did a great public service, showing that politics could be conducted by good people. A lot of the “evils” of our system aren’t evils, it’s just that the process isn’t always familiar to us and can seem alien.
My only objection was the President being treated as a brilliant intellectual machine, able to recite facts at 100 miles an hour. In reality, the smartest people are usually the advisors and the President tends to need to be coached on most issues. President Bartlett was portrayed as so brilliant that he didn’t even need his aides except to save time since he had his own duties. I liked that they portrayed politicians and political hacks as more honest and ethical than public perception often gives them credit for, but they were also portrayed as a lot smarter than they actually are. But then again, Bartlett was a Nobel Prize winning economist. I suppose if we had ever elected Paul Krugman or Milton Friedman President we’d actually have a President that smart. Instead, we tend to elect whoever is the best at sounding smart by reading someone else’s speech.
Ah, I disagree. I am grateful, however that they saved it for the last few episodes of the final season. So many series go south after the couple finally get together.
Yeah, that was bad writing by people obviously unfamiliar with firearms. 2 guys blasting away with pistols from what, 100 yards?, only hitting 3 people in the crowd, and those 3 people were all in the Presidential party?
Sure you don’t mean Spencer Tracy/Katherine Hepburn?
Aw, I liked Gail the Goldfish.
I never liked Stockard Channing since she was the 33 year old actress miscast as a 17 year old Rizzo in Grease. And it just struck me as I was piecing this post together who her portrayal of Abigail Bartlett reminded me of… Miss Piggy.
Trading Rob Lowe’s Sam Seaborn for Josh Malina’s Will Baily was a lousy trade. Their characters were both necessary policy wonks but Sam had more personality and shared some of the spotlight with Josh. I enjoyed seeing the thing between Sam and Mallory (Leo’s daughter).
But what always annoyed me is the meetings. Someone would come to their office (any of their offices) for a meeting and the meeting would take less than 2 minutes. Drive time, clearing security at the front desk, waiting, then a 2 minute meeting??? Especially for something that could have been handled with a phone call?
I was hoping the series would have continued with a Republican President. I was hoping Arnie Vinnick would have won the election.
We watched it earlier in the year. It definitely stumbled near the end.
The attacks on PotUS and family got ridiculously carried away.
Allison Janney was amazing all the way thru. The Will Bailey character was great when he was working the campaign in California, but when brought to DC, they just lost the train of thought. I think the writer’s inability to figure out what to do with Sam carried over to Will.
I don’t think the biggest change was from Season 3 to 4. But the last two seasons got worse and worse. The live debate in particular was an anti-West Wing episode. Not just bad, but angry that we watched it. Vinick had 0 chance of winning in reality.
They even messed up the Josh/Donna thing near the end.
ftg, agree with a lot of that. Once in a while you get one of those actor/role/script synergy of a lifetime things and Allison Janney/CJ/Sorkin was def one of those, in spades.
Having said that, as John Spencer said at the Grammy’s, the writing was gold -actors wait their whole career for quality writing like that and very few get it. Everyone drank from the keg of Sorkin …
Anyone remember Mandy from S1; Josh’s mouthy ex? Man, was that role ever misconceived…
