Sodomy is sex acts that are deemed abnormal and unnatural.
There are a few reasons not to use this term specifically for gay sex:
That is not what it means. Sodomy can include oral sex between heterosexual partners. This means that almost ALL heterosexual people who have had sex have engaged in sodomy.
Sodomy is an out of date word with many negative connotations. The best thing to do with this word is to phase it out of use completely. In the future I expect we will no longer consider oral sex abnormal and unnatural, and I expect and hope that we will no longer see gay sex as abnormal or unnatural.
Using the word sodomy to describe your sex life has the non-benefits of increasing the life span of the word, making the word more powerful as a weapon against you, making it seem as though you are calling your own sex life abnormal and unnatural, and more.
Trying to claim the word sodomy for yourself is like trying to claim the queen of spades in a game of hearts when you are not shooting the moon.
So in conclusion, let’s let the word sodomy, and everything it stands for, die. Don’t increase its life span and bring it more attention. There has got to be a better term to use.
Firstly, I do hear and understand that your trying to be helpful to the cause of legal rights of gays. That’s good.
And I hear your discomfort with an ‘in your face’ gay term (i.e., sodomites). That’s your honest feeling. Thank you for being honest.
But, your conclusion that being ‘in your face’ about this current gay rights victory is counter productive is incorrect.
By the very Gallup poll you linked to, you have shown that there has been an increasing acceptance of GLBT rights. Now, keep in mind that this increasing acceptance has occurred in the face of victory upon victory with the accompanying victory dance upon victory dance.
From gay pride parades to movies and TV shows about gays to all the ‘in your face’ antics of activists, drag queens, and celebrations of ‘queerness,’ the progress keeps progressing.
While some of these ‘in your face’ events have left the non-queer community a bit queasy, they all learned something important: the world did not end. They got over it. Their worst irrational fears, while being rattled by the antics, never came to fruition. They shrugged and moved on and stopped worrying so much.
This made the next victory even easier.
So, thanks for your concern. But you know for yourself, as uneasy as the “Sodomites of the SDMB” has made you, you’re not going to start gay-bashing. Neither will the overwhelming majority of breeders.
Sodomites is not a gay term. It is a term for “abnormal and unnatural sex acts.” This can include heterosexuals performing oral or anal sex, and also includes bestiality.
Agreed. The best strategy is to be right out in the open, and obviously unashamed.
Thumbs down Just because you want to call yourself something that is both negative and innacurate, does not mean you should choose negative and innacurate names to call others.
Call me the idiot. I have always associated sodomy exclusively with anal sex.
As for normal and abnormal - imho, anything consenting adults choose to do is normal … for them. Uncommon would be, I suppose, a better way to categorize some of these sexual activities. I believe some of these right wing fundamentalist types are probably asking for blow jobs just like the loose-liberals.
Who cares? Why the hell do people care what other folks like… as long as we are dealing with adults, consenting adults?
Am I the only one that’s a little creeped out by someone compiling a list of the homosexual Dopers (complete with pictures) and putting it on the internet?
What really depresses me is that if my friend, the guy I’ve drunk many beers with, who I think the world of, gets creeped out by gay people being out and proud, then what chance do we have with our enemies?
:sad:
Ah, the sci-fi preference that dare not speak its name. Good God, man, think of the children! I don’t think any of us need to have this thrown in our faces!
I know it helps my side to define sodomy broadly enough to include heterosexual oral sex, but I think we’re kidding ourselves here. Let’s face it, when people say “sodomy” they mean “man-on-man anal sex.” When fundie preachers start spouting off on the evils of sodomy, they aren’t worrying about the sanctity of farm animals. Sodomy originally meant “all sorts of sex, including gay stuff” but in the current vernacular, it has a precise, narrow meaning.
As for it meaning “abnormal or unnatural,” I think one of the central ideas behind Gay pride has always been that there’s nothing wrong with being “abnormal or unnatural,” in the bedroom or out of it.
I have to disagree. Sodomy means any sex act that is considered abnormal or unnatural. Perhaps when you hear the word sodomy you hear a precise meaning, but when I and many others hear it we hear “anal sex, bestiality, etc”
You are correct that fundies use it to refer to gay sex, but the reason you hear fundies using it to refer to gays, is precisely BECAUSE it is not a precise definition.
They WANT to link gay sex to bestiality. That’s part of their evil plan. Is it a good idea to help that plan along? I don’t think so. I think it would be better to emphasize that gay sex is not unnatural, and is in fact natural and good, and to keep repeating this until it finally sinks in. Maybe I’m wrong.
Really? That’s a surprise for me. I always thought that one of the central ideas was that being gay was NOT unnatural. But even if being unnatural is a point of pride for gays, I will continue to believe that being gay is completely natural.
Nightime, just because the word traditionally meant “abnormal and unnatural” doesn’t mean the acts it describes are. That’s the point of using it. By using it openly, you are saying “Look! These acts aren’t bad at all!” That’s how I took it anyway. Bestiality is only one part of the definition, and I’ll bet money that most people don’t remember that part at all. I know I immediately think of anal and oral when I hear the word, and usually gay anal and oral, because that’s the connative meaning. Often times, the connative meaning is more important than the actual definition, especially in every day venaculear.
And I’m absolutely baffled by the OP. Completely and utterly. Gay members of the SDMB have always been “out and proud” completely honest and open, have flirted and educated, and generally been wonderful, necessary, parts of this community. Suddenly they have a webpage that states that they are, in fact, gay, and you have a problem? Furthermore, what the hell does that webpage have to do with the recent court ruling? Sodomy was only illegal in 13 states, not all 50. Whle this is a crushing blow to bigots everywhere, it’s not like people are only now going to start “committing” sodomy. I got five bucks that says Mockingbird engaged in such horribly shocking behaviors long before the ruling. :rolleyes:
Finally, if it bothers you so much, don’t open the page. You aren’t the keeper of all things right and moral, and they don’t have to answer to you.
Have they? This is the first one I’ve noticed. Honestly, when I first clicked on the link, it looked almost like someone was compiling a wanted list or something.
Superficially, of course. I’m not really worried that Mockingbird has some sort of sinister motive in doing so.
Well, I certainly won’t be posting any pictures and ludicrous claims about enjoying long walks and intimate conversations. I get quite enough rejection from women, thank you very much.
Apparently, you both applaud and deride ‘in your face’ tactics.
Sodomy (at least, its non-bestial incarnations) is not a negative. It is your disdain of the term and attachment of negativity which is the kind of attitude that makes it a taboo that lead to all those sodomy laws in the first place. Queers and Sodomites, ARISE!
I didn’t call myself anything. I remain ephemerally unattached to accidents of human existence. I am an artificial intelligence that exists only on the 'Net. For me, sodomy is running Windows on an Apple.
It seems to me that there are two approaches here: you can disassociate gay sex from sodomy, or you can disassociate sodomy from social stigma. I prefer the second approach, because it seems more likely to be successful, and because it also de-stigmatizes other sex acts.
I don’t think Mockingbird’s page does that, though: I think it reinforces the idea that sodomy = gay sex and only gay sex. I don’t think that anyone out there is going to see that page and think he’s talking about getting it on with the family dog.
Actually, I’ve long been of the opinion that the word “unnatural” is meaningless. It is impossible to do something “unnatural” because everything is part of nature. The opposite of “natural” is not “unnatural,” it is “supernatural.”
I think I know where he’s coming from. He doesn’t think, or doesn’t want to think, of your sexuality as your defining trait. The religious upbringing might have something to do with that…which became an integral part of him as much as being gay has become an integral part of you. I also wondered about that at one time…“why focus on sexual behavior like this? Who cares?” but things I’ve read over the years (including the SDMB) explained that very well I thought. No, I don’t “understand” but I think I get it. Mind you even with a somewhat liberal religious upbringing, sex = “marriage”, and no one is supposed to know or condone or admit to much more than that…now here comes a gay pride rally, sexuality all dressed up and festive, on parade :eek: holy shit. Bit of a contrast there.
This is perfectly bizarre. Airman, you’re taking Mockingbird to task for starting up a fun little website with get-to-know-you photos? What is your problem?
For once it’s something just for fun. It has no connection to bigots or homophobia of any kind. (No bigots are likely to view it, for that matter.) We are occasionally allowed not to pay any attention to them and live our lives.
It’s just the title?! Give me a break. Good thing you won’t be in Montreal for Pride, you might see Potter wearing his POOF tank-top (and a host of other amazing sights besides) and get the vapours.
As for words:
(And after all that, Mockingbird, it looks like a fun idea. Can I, Hamish, and Potter email you?)
