machiavelli says: set employer up on glassdoor and leave bad reviews.
Ah…
Super-Machiavelli says leave good reviews… but too good to be true, and/or by assholes.
machiavelli says: set employer up on glassdoor and leave bad reviews.
Ah…
Super-Machiavelli says leave good reviews… but too good to be true, and/or by assholes.
In my experience, the background check is not part of the “hiring” process in that it is part of the decision. It is simply a cursory task to verify that what you put on the application form is true. Typically this happens after the decision to hire you has been made (in some cases, after you start working or not at all).
Remember that your resume is not a legal document. It’s a marketing document. So omissions are fine. You just need to make sure that the application form is accurate as that is what they use for the background check.
Just make sure the resume doesn’t contradict anything in the application.
You could have been hiking the Appalachian Trial for two months for all anyone knows. Just leave it off.
This is true but I don’t think it would stop my company. They are not really bothered by laws (case in point, I was told to sign the employee manual, but warned that some of it is out of date). I’m pretty sure they would tell any background checker that I was fired, if that were indeed the case. I have no money to sue them anyway.
Definitely leaving it off the resume; from reading the responses in this thread, even if I got the chance to explain, it doesn’t seem to be clear what an acceptable explanation would be. It just pisses me off a little that this job is now going to follow me for the rest of my life on formal job applications, while the company gets to move on and terrorize the next poor sap and the one after him/her, ad infinitum.
I don’t even have confidence I can pick a good job next time; after all, I chose this one. I even had a different offer at the same time! I’m an idiot.
Is it, though? I think you may be overstating/overthinking this. I suppose it might be different for things like security clearance, but I have a bunch of short-term jobs that never made it onto my resume, nor any kind of application form (where I usually just write “see resume” anyway). Simply because these short-term jobs have nothing to do with my long-term career plans. I worked for six weeks at a pizza joint last year, to tide me over between ‘white collar’ jobs. Is any hiring manager in corporate cube land going to give a shit? Doubtful.
This job does not fit within your long-term career plans, so leave it off and don’t worry about it. It’s extremely unlikely that any future hiring managers will care.
If anyone asks, and few if any will, you can say that you worked to keep a roof over your head but that the job didn’t have anything to do with your planned career trajectory. Because that’s true. Or you can say that the job description changed once you got there, and so ended up having not much to do with your skillset. Either way, that’s about as neutral as you can get. Company and employee needs change all the time. That’s just business.
I haven’t read beyond the OP, but I’ll say this:
“We just can’t find good help”, in my experience, translates to “we’re impossible to work for”.
I don’t know the OP’s line of work, but in mine, we keep an eye on who’s hiring (just to keep our options open), and we notice those employers who are constantly looking for new help. And we figure that there’s probably a good reason that they can’t keep help. And so we don’t apply at those places. Because it will turn out that the owners of those places are impossible to work for.
Take option #1.
Despite my previous post, I did make a bad decision with a job at one point. My previous job had reduced my hours, for business reasons not related to my performance, to a point that I could not pay my bills, so I took another job. I took the new job under the advice of a coworker from the same job that had cut my hours, and hers. She and I were hired at the new job as a team.
It took less than two weeks for us to discover that our new employer had absolutely no business trying to be in our business. Completely incompetent. She caught on quicker than I did, and quit after three weeks. I quit after five weeks. It was the first and only job that I have ever simply walked off without notice. (Two months later, the business was shut down for the owner’s failure to pay his taxes.)
I do not list that job on my resume. It was an aberration. My teammate and I were fortunate that our previous employer was happy to declare us “laid off”, so we were able to collect unemployment benefits. That job we took … it was in the middle of that “unemployment” stretch, and we both found secure employment afterward. So there’s a gap between Employer A and Employer C. Employer B does not get mentioned. He’s replaced with “I was between jobs; Employer A laid me off, and a couple months later I went to work for Employer C.”
ReticulatingSplines, I see you joined this board in 2009, but I’ve never seen your name before. I have no idea how old you are, or how long you have been in your line of work. I’ve been here since 2003, and in the last 12 years I have discovered that some posters I assumed were older than me were actually younger, and vice-versa. But I can say that I’ve been in my own line of work for almost 32 years, and I can recognize bullshit when I see it. If you’ve been in your line of work for a few years, I hope you can also recognize bullshit. If you see bullshit, get out. Your personal satisfaction will make getting out worthwhile.
I know leaving a job off a resume is accepted, but leaving one off a job application? The one where you have to attest that it is a full and complete job history? My understanding is that you have to list everything on there (irrespective of whether they would find out).
That never occurred to me. From my perspective everything I do put on the application is honest and true. You could call it a lie of omission, I suppose. After searching around the web it looks like the consensus is you should probably put it on an application, but it’s OK if it’s not on your resume. After all a resume is a personal marketing document. It also seems common that if you do decided to leave something off a job application; it’ll likely never be found out; but could be used as reason to fire you if it IS found out. In other words; if you’re a good employee it could be overlooked; however if they wanted a reason to fire you… there it is.
I really think you’re overthinking this. Sure, if you get into a habit of 3 month stints, that might raise some red flags. But one false start at a company is not going to derail your entire career.
I would look for a job now. Leave your current position off until you’ve been there 6 months. If anyone asks, just say you moved for a position that didn’t work out as expected.
HR people are not brilliant investigators looking to find a reason not to hire you At least not once the decision to hire you has been made and that decision is usually well before the background check process. Fill out the jobs, titles and dates accurately in the application form. But don’t worry about HR going through your resume and forms with a fine tooth comb. They will typically send those forms off to some third party who checks the database that your education and work history is correct. Then they’ll either give an OK or call you if they find something that doesn’t fit (like in the case of one of my previous employers getting acquired and no longer existing).
I had a job like this many years ago. It was such a horrendous experience, I briefly considered surrendering my license. :eek: Sure am glad I didn’t; I found a great job several weeks later, and when things changed drastically at that place several years later (and not for the better) and I decided to leave, I was interviewing for another job, and the interviewer asked me, “Why did you leave Hospital X after 4 months?” I hemmed and hawed a bit, because I wasn’t quite sure how to answer, and he said, “You can tell me the truth. I’ve been told many times that Hospital X is a very difficult place to work at.”
Among other things, the OP said s/he was placed on a PIP on the 6th day on the job. Me? I was called into the boss’ office on the SECOND day, and he told me that he had heard from multiple sources that I was (among other things) an incompetent troublemaker, but he wouldn’t tell me what those sources were or what I had allegedly done. NONE of the other pharmacists I knew personally, with the exception of the one I had replaced, had ever heard of him even though he’d lived in this area for over 20 years and had once owned his own business. :dubious: I finally met someone who did know him; the one thing she told me that really stood out was that she had done some relief work for him, and all 3 paychecks she got from him bounced. :smack: She also told me that he had not lost a previous business for the reason he told me (undercut by the competition) but because everyone in the small town where it was located knew that he beat his wife up all the time. :eek: I believe it, too.
The job that I did end up getting was in a town 150 miles away, and one day, I was telling another colleague about this job, and another really bad one I had in that city. She was a bit skeptical, in part because she wondered what role I played in it, and she had two friends, a husband and wife, who lived there, and that evening, she e-mailed them to ask if I was telling the truth. They were both online, on separate computers, and they both told her that I was correct and that the truth was worse than anyone who hadn’t BTDT could ever imagine.
In short, her response to me was “Horrible, horrible mismanagement.”
On the rare occasion that I got a form application to fill out (which is more often the case with recruitment / temp agencies, not direct hire jobs, at least in the white collar world), I can’t recall one that ever said that the job history had to be full and complete. You have to attest that it is TRUE and CORRECT, but that means “don’t lie,” not “don’t omit irrelevant details.” So… don’t claim to have worked for Leo Burnett when you never have, don’t claim to have worked as an account manager when you’ve never been anywhere but the mail room. But you don’t have to list that two-day temp job from ten years ago, either, or list every job you had waiting tables when you’re applying for a web developer position.
I mean, I’ve had enough short term gigs, projects, temp assignments, that it would be impossible to list ALL of them on an application form… I’d run out of room. Even if I could remember them all. And no one at a corporate office is going to care that I waited tables when I was just out of college (or worked at a pizza take-out counter last year).
I don’t bother to list my high school or grade school on application forms either, even though yes, some forms have had a space for it. Because when I list that I graduated college and have a professional certification, and have over a decade of work experience, if the company cares where I went to GRADE SCHOOL I think they’re really missing the point… and I probably don’t want to work for them anyway. Be that as it may, I have never, not once, had anyone even mention it to me after I turned the form in. Nor has anyone ever objected when I wrote “see resume” in the previous jobs section.
Rule #1: never lie, on a resume, a cover letter, or in an interview.
Omissions in cases like this are reasonable, but then you might look like you’re not currently working. I’m not sure which is worse, but my suspicion is it’s better to have a shorty at the end then being out of work. This is especially true
Rule #2: if you do omit something and then are asked about it, do not hesitate, but tell the truth. Plan your answers and just how you’d say “It’s not working out.”
Regarding that, I might say “Personality problems, which is odd, since in 20 years of professional work, I’ve never run into a personality problem that would cause me to start looking.” That way, you’re implying that there’s a nut in charge, without having to say it. But they might ask for more details. If so, I might say “As much I’d love to go into it, but I don’t want to say anything negative about prior employers. Suffice it to say that I was incompatible with […]”
Of course, if this is your second job, that course might not work so well.
Definitely be hesitant to say anything specific and negative about your current employers.
Now the hardest advice: The best way to get started looking for a new job is to do your damnedest to make the current position as perfect as possible. Go out of your way, spend extra time, suck it up, and think of ANYTHING you can do to be the best possible employee at your position, given the sucky situation. Figure out how to manage the managers so they don’t have to manage you. Remind yourself that this is just for the short term.
You might be surprised at what you’re capable of handling. Believe it or not, this can benefit your search even if you never mention it. Still, make a note of the things you’re doing to perfect the situation, and use them in an interview. State a specific problem – not as a criticism, but just as a situation you were presented with – and show how you successfully responded. Kill two birds with one stone: it shows an issue in the old position without blaming, and shows you being proactive and adaptive. Implies a negative about the old job, but ends on a positive. Way better than whining!
Noooo. Say NOTHING personal about who you worked for. If you are asked – ONLY if you are asked – you can say that you needed to work after the move but the current job isn’t a fit for your long-term career goals. Don’t say WHY it isn’t a fit. (Don’t mention why you moved, either.) They don’t need the specifics, and this way you can be truthful without sounding like you’re badmouthing anyone.
The interviewer is unlikely to pry into dirty details. If they try, you can just tell them you’re looking for a working environment more like the interviewer’s company, and turn the conversation to them instead of your old place.
Do not put it on your resume.
If asked, “I took a position and it wasn’t a good fit”. Decline to say anything further, other than specifying that you made the decision to leave, you were not fired - and only if they ask about that.
Here’s the problem. From an interviewer’s perspective, leaving a job after 2 months indicates either a) you didn’t do your homework before taking the position or b) you might be a flake who leaves a job if things get too tough.
But really you’re overthinking it. I’ve conducted interviews and been on the hiring committee at 4 different companies. All the interview advice you read is bullshit because no one gives the interviewers the answers to all the bullshit questions we ask. The way you get hired is to communicate clearly and confidently, but not arrogantly, and make a connection with the people interviewing you.
I hear all sorts of reasons why people are leaving their last job. I know the real reasons are usually some combination of “I don’t like my boss”, “I didn’t get a raise/promotion”, “I’m bored”, “I got/am about to get let go” or “I hate this job so much I just want to work anywhere else”. You just have to communicate that without coming across as a prima donna, incompetent loser or a pussy who can’t handle the work.
Oh nonsense. Everyone stretches everything that can’t be objectively verified by a third party.
One thing to remember - this is more the company’s fault than it is yours. Nowadays, companies put all sorts of time, effort, assessments and evaluations into each new hire. The fact that they hired someone so wrong for the job is more on them than it is on you. You only knew what they chose to disclose. On the other hand, they had all your information and could be presumed to have made an informed decision.
Put the positive spin on it in your upcoming interviews. Tell the prospective employer that is was a mishire and that you realized immediately that they’d chosen the wrong person for the job. As others have said, your willingness to proffer notice and do what you can to effect a smooth transition will speak loudly in your favor with your next employer.
Any decent HR person knows there are occasionally bad hires, this will not negatively impact your chances with a new employer.
Several years ago, I applied for a non-healthcare job, and they wanted my complete transcripts from day one. I did order them and sent them in, but didn’t get the job. I had guessed that they had been burned by someone who had falsified ID or credentials, but a friend of mine who had applied there in the 1990s said she had to do that too, and speculated that it was their way of legally finding out how old people are.
That made as much sense to me as anything.
Places that hire minors would definitely want information about elementary and high school, to confirm their age.
Leave it off the resume, but if the job application says your employment history is complete, then put it on there, but not the resume.
If you are seeking jobs with competitors or in a small community, the locals all already know its a madhouse. Your interview will be your chance to show your level of diplomacy about it.
Q: “Why was your employment there so short?”
A: “It was a poor cultural fit. I plan and execute pro-actively, and they thrive on a sense of urgency.”
Leave the last sentence out until they press.
Again, the community already knows this.