The bullshit avalanche was overwhelming. The media did nothing to help.
If there is any hope for the midterms in 2026 the Ds better figure it out soon.
As I said in one of the (many) parallel threads: this is the opposite of “The Economy, Stupid”. The economy has broken records, on employment, on salaries including inflation, on the stockmarket.
Yes I know many people are still struggling, but more people were struggling under Trump, even giving him a pass for his final year (which we’d never do for a Democrat) and yet the GOP has successfully touted a flourishing economy under Trump.
The problem is…
Exactly. As I’ve also been saying: it’s pointless talking about how Democrats could have finessed their message without first tackling the issue that most people don’t get to hear what Democrats say.
Media is fragmented now, and conservative media has managed to dominate the new landscape, whether it’s FOX, Sinclair network, Twitter and generally the memeverse.
We see it in those interviews and polling: people who are not politically engaged only get to hear Dems want to feed your children transvestite dogs cooked on an electric stove!
How do you “plan” to defeat Fox News, who, as noted, just never mentioned any of the things that Harris was actually saying?
This is something I’ve been thinking about. Someone needs to create a new news environment that will actually pass this information along, and find some way to get GOP voters to actually pay attention to it. And it needs to be done in a way that some billionaire can’t just buy it up, and shut it up.
I’m not sure how to do that, but I am sure it will take years to do it, and more years for it to have any real effect. But I’m also sure it needs to be done.
100% in agreement with you.
AND YET, the voters disagree. They voted the way they did because they don’t feel the economy has broken records, on employment, on salaries including inflation, on the stockmarket.
The voters are convinced they are getting screwed.
And that the fake “open border” is part of the problem.
…ya’ll in a bubble.
That isn’t meant as a criticism. Just a reflection of where the world is at right now.
I wrote a number of years ago about how we curate our own reality now. The algorithm drives what we see. And it shapes our perceptions to an alarming degree.
I live in a different bubble to most everyone here. I’m Samoan/Māori. I live on the other side of the world. I’m unapologetically progressive. And a few months ago, the last time I was regularly able to visit the dope, I was quite shocked at the confidence and the complacency of everyone here. I had access to the very same polling and stats as everyone here, and my read at the time was everything was on a knifes edge, and there was a very good chance she would lose. That the Democrats had put practically zero focus on the Senate and the House. And were downright insulting to people in the swing states.
I point to this speech that Bill Clinton gave in Michigan. Imagine you are a young Palestinian and Arab American in Michigan and this was the message the Democrat party decided to send.
It doesn’t matter what side of the Gaza debate you are on. This is about “the bubble.” And how the Democrats completely misread the room, how people here missed how much anger this speech caused in progressive circles. The full speech was horrific. In Michigan. They felt it was a “slap in the face.” Arrogance personified. That “we don’t need your vote. We can do this without you.”
And enough people decided “FINE. If you don’t need my vote? You aren’t going to get it. I’m staying home.”
THAT’S the bubble that I lived in. Pundits I was following have picked that Harris was going to lose for months. It was the pivot from “Republicans are weird” to “Republicans will sit on my cabinet” that they picked as the tipping point. There was a wave of enthusiasm at the start of Harris’s run that disappeared when they put the muzzle on Walz.
In my bubble I’ve seen a constant stream of dead children, killed in the most horrific, grotesque way. I’ve been following some of the most beautiful, amazing people, one day they would be posting, the next…gone. I’ve lost count of how many people have just disappeared.
Again: I’m not mentioning this here to re-litigate the war. It’s about the competing realities we exist in now. In your bubble “you really thought Harris was going to win.” In my bubble “the Harris campaign is pivoting to talking points, has removed any spontaneity, and are listening to some of the worst people in the world that are responsible for every single past Democrat loss. She’s going to lose.”
And the hardest thing about being in my bubble was trying to convince people in your bubble that things were not looking good. Several times I argued that “if I were an American, and if I had a vote, I’d be struggling to vote for Biden/Harris, and I’d probably sit the next election out.” That was intended as a warning. But it wasn’t taken that way and people certainly let me know. So I shut up. And people that thought like me shut up as well, which reinforced the bubble that most of you were in. You saw what you wanted to see.
I think that effect of inflation on housing prices, reflected in both the rapid steep increases in rentals and higher home prices due to higher interest rates, has had an outsized effect on the perception of the economy.
Housing is a huge portion of most personal and family budgets, and once you sign that highly inflated lease or close on that home loan at 7% interest, you’re stuck with that cost for a long time.
If interest rates came down after you closed your loan, or rental prices came down after you sign your leases ……you don’t really much care, it still sucks to be you.
Blueprint2024 has polling showi g that swi g states flipped to Trump primarily over inflation, immigration and the perception that democrats supported culture war issues like trans issues instead of helping the middle class.
If anyone has a theory for why it was actually gaza or anything else they should back that up with equally convincing evidence.
This is actually quite a progressive forum, and there have been threads trying to raise awareness on Gaza, and plenty of people saying the lack of support for Gaza (or even letting any Palestinians take the mic) was going to cost the Dems heavily. And that the election was on a knife-edge.
So, I absolutely agree with your sentiments, and on the misguided strategy to basically reassure voters that they supported Israel. But not on the characterization of the Dope.
I sincerely believed that enough people in the United States would come to their senses and not vote for a felon, rapist, and insurrectionist that committed treason. Instead they went all in and voted against Harris because they were every bit the awful people we supposed they were, with a healthy dollop of racism and misogyny to top it off.
The economy, based on every traditional measurement, is as healthy as it has ever been. There are structural problems, to be sure, but they have always existed and any attempt to ameliorate them was blocked by Republicans. Violent crime is at all-time lows, but fear ruled the day.
Essentially, hate and fear won the day. And what can we say about that? It’s what we are, it’s what we’ve always been. Our failure was believing in the goodness of our fellow humans. It simply doesn’t exist unless it directly benefits them, and now when it all goes wrong and we’re circling the drain, the only thing I can say is that he told us he was gonna. It’s just too bad that so many people are going to be hurt, not just here but globally, before it’s all over.
…see thats the thing. We are talking about two different things. Your cite talks about why people chose Trump. I was talking about why people stayed home.
They are not the same.
And again: I wasn’t re-litegating the war. I was talking about the bubble I was in. There were more than just two bubbles. I didn’t argue that “Gaza was the reason for everything.” Just in the bubble I was in, it was overwhelmingly the dominant issue.
…I would disagree. I think the post I responded to a couple of minutes ago is fairly reflective of what I experienced. It was an instantly defensive reaction. People didn’t want to hear it. The same for the “knife-edge thing.” That’s what the numbers said, but people were confident that Harris would pull it off and didn’t really want to listen to anything to the contrary.
I am not fully aware of all the details of the campaign…but my niece living in usa said that kamala comment on live TV that “there is not a thing which comes to mind which she would change from Biden policies” was biggest blunder and cost her a lot of votes…including hers.
I wish it was not true …but this is what I heard from her and a few others as well. Perhaps if she worded it better than what she said would have been better is what I now feel.
Joe Biden has been one of our best presidents. The economy is great, and crime is down. Continuing his policies is a Good Thing.
Back in July, I saw that the Democrats were in serious trouble, they were falling behind because of Biden’s issues with messaging and concerns about his age.
Then the Democrats threw their Hail Mary pass, Harris stepped in and the Democratic faithful pulled together like we never had before. We fell in line AND fell in love. We donated lavishly and volunteered relentlessly. Our candidate was well-spoken and personable and the very embodiment of Democratic principles and values. Her debate performance was stellar and her star-studded rallies projected success. It seemed like the bold strategy just might work.
But it wasn’t enough. Now I think there were multiple reasons it wasn’t enough, but in all these post election threads I have yet to see anyone suggest that she just didn’t have enough time.
Maybe the primary process really is necessary, maybe voters want to hear those multiple versions of Democratic policy. Maybe the voters really want to see their candidate fight a years long battle, observe how they react to current events and bad press. Maybe they don’t want it to be too easy. Sure, she didn’t have any major blunders, but she didn’t have a lot of time to blunder. And maybe three months just wasn’t long enough to gain the attention and affection of the non-political types, especially considering Trump has been campaigning for 10 years.
Im not saying that was the primary reason for her loss. I don’t think there was any one single reason. Elections are decided at the margins, and I think there are multiple reasons that small but critical percentage of the electorate voted as they did.
There was so much press coverage about Biden’s age we failed to address the other reasons he was losing popularity. Harris tried to appeal to the never-Trumpers by tacking sharply to the right, but no matter how much they talked about the importance of foreign policy and national security, they ended up voting for deregulation and supply side policy.
There were a non-zero number of Democrats that withheld their vote in protest and not just regarding Gaza. They were mad about the way Harris became the candidate and they thought they’d been denied a voice. I don’t know how common that was but the woman in line behind me at polls felt that way strongly and intended to leave the presidential vote blank. I have no idea how many people felt that way, but in NC Harris got about 50,000 votes less than Lt. Governor candidate (and winner) Rachel Hunt, and that makes me suspect some sort of protest action, even if it wasn’t organized.
For some it wasn’t just D vs. R, or Harris vs. Trump. It was the status quo vs. disruption, it was an up/ down vote on the very concept of government. A lot of people are just desperately dissatisfied with the trajectory of their lives and unfortunately, desperate people are vulnerable to magical thinking and scams.
And I also agree with the points everyone has been making about disinformation and the generally difficulty of combating a relentless years long flood of bullshit. 40% + of the population is hopelessly brainwashed, which is why it’s crucially important to figure out how to break through to those on the margins.
Nah I want to live in in America where it is a good electoral strategy to oppose Israel’s war crimes, and I’m largely around people who agree. However there’s never been any evidence for this, and “it’s the economy stupid” has consistently been what US elections are actually about.
I guess i also live in a different bubble. I went to a dance the night of the election. A lot of the people there are LGBT, in particular, we have a lot of trans and non-binary dancers. One of them wrote to the group to ask that no one talk about the election at the dance. Many of us were filled with dread on election eve. Sadly, were were right about that.
…of course there is. What do you think happened in Dearborn?
I don’t think I was misled about Harris. I only thought she had about a 2/3 chance to win, which was not enough to be comfortable. It’s not enough to bet on when the stakes are so high.
I admit, though, that I was wrong about Mayor Pete. The same thing probably would have happened to him that happened to Harris.
MAGAs: “Trash country. Eating cats! Joe and the H*. [or insert homophobia if it were Pete]”
Normal People: “WTF is wrong with you?”
[Trump is elected]
Self-appointed MAGA Whisperers: “The Democrats need to stop being so divisive!”
It’s sort of like the phrase “The Democrat Party”. If you let them use it, you look weak. If you respond, you look petty. Except replace “weak or petty” with “weak or divisive” when confronted with sexism, racism, and homophobia.
Agree. But should the Dems dig in their heels and stand more firm on liberal policies, or pivot more toward the right? (I predict “Which way to pivot?” is going to be a huge issue, and can even see it leading to a split in the Democratic Party. Meanwhile, the Repubs will be sitting back and watching the implosion while chomping on popcorn.)
I’m sure lots of people had lots of different reasons for voting or not voting. But i spent two weeks canvassing for Harris, and i talked to a lot of voters, including more trump voters than i expected to meet (i thought I’d signed up for get out the vote.) The only person who mentioned Gaza to me was a fellow canvasser, who was upset at Biden but working for Harris anyway. I heard a LOT about inflation, and the angry ones talked about illegal aliens committing crimes.
I think it was mostly the economy, and Harris blew it when she chose to run as kinda-the-incumbent, and to support Biden. Not that she had a lot of choice, she really wasn’t in a position to criticize him much. But she should have done more to differentiate herself and to run on “hope and change”, not on “more of the same”.
The economy is actually doing pretty well, all things considered. But there has been a lot of inflation, and that created a lot of losers, because even if wages are rising on average, there are lots of people whose wage hasn’t kept up. And they told me they were doing better when Trump was president, and they wanted that back. I think they are going to be really disappointed, especially if he gets those tariffs he wants. But people vote in the moment, and they vote their hopes and fears. More Americans fear not making the rent then fear persecution.
At least, that’s my analysis.