I need a cabinetmaker!

OK, so I was looking in the IKEA catalog for a bookshelf/wall system last night, and learned to my great chagrin that the one I wanted (Bonde, if you’re curious) is in the $2000 range. Eeee-yow! And IKEA’s not even known for high-end stuff! So it got me to thinking…maybe for that kind of money, I could/should just get custom-built shelves?

The specs:
11’ wide, 8’ tall, approx. 11"-15" deep, in cherry finish. The bottom 27" or so will have doors (to hide stuff), the layer (or two) above that will have drawers, and all shelves above will be open for books.

The questions:

  1. How much would this cost? Is $2000-$3000 reasonable? Or am I naive and deluded?
  2. How do I even start looking for one? Randomly picking one out of the yellow pages doesn’t sound like a smart strategy.
  3. Has anyone priced the higher-end lines (e.g., Poliform or B&B Italia)? What are their prices like? And the quality compared to IKEA (better, one would hope) or custom-built?

Look in your yellowpages for cabinet/furniture makers. Canvas them by phone. Pick the five/ten (however many you want to visit) who give you the best first impression from a customer service standpoint. Ask if they have a portfolio. Ask for a client list, and talk to the people for whom they’ve already done work. You might ask for a list of clients who have had large book/display cases built. Find the one with the best customer reaction, and ask about price.

You say you want a cherry finish. That indicates that you’re willing to go with a different wood. If you are willing to go with a less expensive wood, by all means do so. I recommend birch plywood construction (you can get any veneer you want, but you want the core of the plywood to be birch.) Plywood is a much more stable product than solid wood, and it’s much cheaper. You’ll still get a great piece of furniture, but without the heavy premium you’d pay for clear hardwood boards.

I know this is very generic advice, but there’s really no acid test to figure out who’s best/most reasonable. The more research you do before you plunk down a deposit, the better the result will be. (you’ll also be able to avoid the post purchase remorse. You’ll know you got the best price you could, and the best product for the money.)

Well, in general, it’s hard for a cabinet-maker to beat the price of mass-produced items. You have to factor design time and tool setup times into the equation.

I would expect that best case is you could get close to the same price and get better materials and workmanship.

Well, every president puts together a cabinet, and Jimmy Carter has helped build houses, so he’s probably your best bet for a skilled cabinet maker.

Glad to help.:wink:

I would recommend our guy who does cabinets for us, but he pissed me off a while back, so screw him! :wink: He obviously has enough work and doesn’t need any referals.

Side note: Cabinet makers tend to be strange ducks (at least in my experiance).


May the mediocrity of several greeting-card salesman inhabit your soul like unmatched buttons in a empty mayonaise jar.

Two thousand dollars is so much cheaper than you could ever get custom built work here in California.
Cusom built prices here would truly shock you if you yelp at two thousand dollars. Don’t even bother checking for lower prices. Of course I don’t know where you live, but around here you would have to spend at least two and one half times that amount.

(Long reply, sorry in advance)

I’m going to answer your questions as best I can. I am a kitchen and bath designer (10 years), I have designed and installed many dozens of entertainment centers, including Val Cucine, Poliform, Poggenpohl, and Leicht as well as many US companies. I will start with the big cabinet companies, its been quite a few years since I owned my own shop and Forbin is much better equipped to let you know about small custom shops and their pricing structure.

Now for the questions;

  1. 2-3K is not in the ballpark. Sorry, but that’s about as easy as I can put it. 11’ of Poliform or similar will start at around 15K and go up to as much as 30K depending on the finish, wood species (cherry is nice but the Europeans go for more Birch and alder), number and type of pullouts, accessories, and mouldings. In point of fact, I generally estimate the labour alone for a project like yours at around $1-2,000 depending on the amount of moulding and the amount of electrical work involved.

Note that I am basing these prices on German and Italian manufacturers as that is what you mentioned. A semi custom entertainment center of those dimensions from an American cabinet company like WoodMode, Grabill, Dynasty/Omega, Craft Maid or similar quality will set you back starting at the same price but perhaps not as high, maybe they would top out at around 20-23K.

You can get stock cabinetry that may fit your budget and design from some manufacturers. Check with some of your local kitchen design centers, I know Amera and Brookhaven have Entertainment center products, as do most of the stock lines such as KraftMaid, Merillat, etc. You could probably get down to ~3-5K at this price point but it will be a more traditional look or laminate doors. Look for Shaker style doors with perhaps a laminate contrast to get a contemporary look from a mainstream company

  1. How to start? Make a measured drawing of your space that includes the locations of windows, doors (measure from outside of trim to outside), precise location of electrical outlets, width height and depth available of space, and what the floor and ceiling are made of.

Gather together what your storage needs are going to be. By this I mean take a look at your library, do you have all paper backs or do you have lots of big art books? Do you need closed storage (glass doors) for rare books, will you want knick knack space and if so, will you need lighting? Are you planning on putting any TV or stereo components in this center? That will drastically change the design from a strictly bookcase like storage center. If so, have the model numbers and dimensions of the equipment you want or own.

Are you going to install it yourself? If so, make sure whoever you work with knows this so they can design accordingly. There are things we can do with fillers and corner blocks that will make it easier on the DIY’er.

As for how to pick a cabinetmaker, references, references, references. Look for a place that does a lot of entertainment centers, ask your local high end audio video shops if they have a list of local cabinetmakers, ask friends for recommendations. But CHECK the references. I like to look for a place that has been in business at least a few years and I like to get references that are both new and at least a year or two old. This lets you know how their products hold up

  1. I covered most of this in #1 but I will touch on a few other salient points.
    IKEA actually has some decent quality stuff if you look at what you are buying. The Bonde stuff is pretty nice for what it is and I would happily put it in my house. I have in fact spec’ed IKEA for some condo rehabs in Wicker Park and three years later the builder has not had any problems with them. The thing to stay away from is where they try to go super chap, painted pine (DIY), the lowest two levels of their lines basically. Maybe nachoforsara can offer some advice as she works or worked??) at IKEA. It is not in the same league as any of the Italian or German Mfr’s, and I would not expect it to hold up as well as a locally custom made piece.

Don’t be afraid of engineered lumber. By this I mean MDF, medium density fiberboard. This is what all that expensive Euro stuff is made out of and the IKEA stuff is as well, if a slightly coarser grain of material that won’t hold up to repeated disassembly but is still quite stable. In fact even if I was designing a plywood construction entertainment center, for any shelf over 30” I would spec veneered MDF with a wood facing as plywood will warp and sag more than the MDF and the MDF is more stable and resistant to humidity.

Another option is to call a local Vocational tech school or similar program at a community college if you are looking for cheap. Sometimes the instructors will give you the name of a student and have the work count towards a grade. If you do this, make sure you have a GOOD design. I would recommend taking that drawing you made and splurge for a design center to get a design you can take with you. I know Home Depot and other Borg like entities have seminars on design that are often run by the manufacturers’ reps and can be very informative.

If I were in your shoes, with 2-3K to spend, I’d go for the IKEA, spend the rest on new books and stereo stuff! Another reason to go with them is your living arrangements, is this a permanent home or will you be leaving in a few years? The modular design of IKEA means you will most likely be able to fit into whatever new space you are in, you may have to omit or add a cabinet or two, but you will most likely be able to reuse most of the entertainment center.

I’m sorry if this isn’t what you wanted to hear, but cabinetry is mighty darn expensive these days! Feel free to email me if you have any questions re: design or specific manufacturer info.

Even if you build it yourself, you’re looking at close to $1000 for the materials; factor in the time involved and, yep, you’d better go for IKEA.

Wow. Thanks, everybody!

Short answer
OK, I’m going to IKEA.

Long answer
First, I have to explain or apologize by saying that my surprise at IKEA’s prices comes mainly from a. somehow having lowered my basis (I think their Billy line is about half the price of Bonde, but it doesn’t do what I want) and b. not paying attention. I have, over time, already assembled a system from Punt Mobles, which is a Spanish company that makes a cool modular wall system. Nobody seems to carry them in the US any more, however, so I was thus prompted to look elsewhere. Being that I put the thing together one piece at a time, though, the full impact of a complete wall system didn’t hit me until I gathered up all the receipts and added up the numbers last night – my guess is that an 11’ section would start in the $7000 range today, without doors and pullouts, which is lower than the Italians & Germans, but close to Forbin’s estimate.

To address a couple of other points:[ul][li]No, I’m not afraid of plywood. See my Punt Mobles shelves.[/li][li]No entertainment center. Books only.[/li][li]Knick-knacks? That’s not what I had in mind for this particular unit, though it is another problem that I’ll have to get solved.[/li][li]I’ve helped other people put together IKEA furniture before, and found through the experience that the quality of the finished product depends a lot on the quality of the assembly labor. Well, I think I’m pretty good. ;)[/ul][/li]One reason that I thought of going custom is basically that, when put together, the IKEA shelves are about 6" shorter than my 11’ wall. Leaving a gap along the wall is better than leaving a gap in my bank account, I say, but if I were to fill it, it leads to…

Another question
Well, how do you do it? Can you just go to Home Depot and get a strip of wood cut to the right width & length, stain it yourself, and put it in? I can assemble, but never tried staining, so it’ll probably look like hell. I’d imagine that a job like this would be way too small for a professional cabinetmaker to bother with, yes?

I’m looking at the IKEA catalog and it appears that the Bonde matches the kitchen style Kvadrat. If this is so (confirm), you could order a couple fillers or if you want to go cheap, get a pack of the toekick. At 4" x 88", one on either side trimmed would do it with a joint near the bottom ( 4 pcs needed in total= $12)

I personally think that entertainment centers look better if they are not wall to wall, especially the clean lines of the Bonde.

One thing to consider is varying the depths of the cabinets. If you pull the center units 3" from the wall, it will look pretty nice and break up the straight line across. Check with the designer at IKEA on how to accomodate that top moulding shelf detail that ties all the cabinets together. I see some joint lines and if you can make those joint lines at a depth change it will look much more custom made and not as cookie cutter. Also ask about finsihed sides, I would assume both sides are finished automatically, but check ahead of time. Don’t worry about the gap behind, just put some 2x4 bracing up to fasten to.

As a final note, I see the list of available sizes in the book but I’m sure it is incomplete, get a complete catalog of the sizes available before you start designing. From my initial glimpse, it looks hard to hit 132" with the sizes they have. Even 10’6" might be iffy if you aren’t doing a TV center. Of course you may have this all worked out already I dunno. The folks at IKEA will design it for you for free if you bring them a drawing.

Good luck!

MikeG pretty much covered it. I generally only work with “real” wood, and decent grade hardwood will run about $2.00 per board foot on average, depending on what type you get (a board foot, if you don’t know is a 12" X 12" X 1" piece. For a project your size, especially a bookcase that will be holding a lot of weight, that adds up in a big hurry and then you have to worry about the cost of labor for good work which isn’t cheap, unless you know a slob like me that will work for beer or sex (depending on gender). Depending on what style you are looking for, you may be able to do it yourself though. If you are into the Scandinavian style, which I assume you are, if IKEA appeals to you, and it’s just a bookcase, it’s really not a labor intensive job. Plus you get the fun of looking at it every day knowing that you actually made it, slight flaws and all. But since you mentioned that staining is something you are concerned about, IKEA isn’t a bad way to go.

As far as staining, even the most thick headed moron can stain a piece of wood, but making it match another piece can be tricky. But you are only talking about a 3 inch piece of trim on each side (assuming you center it) so getting the stain to match isn’t that big of an issue. If the shading is off a bit, it will get lost in the noise. Just wipe on the stain, and wipe it off. The longer you leave it on, the deeper it will be. Use a piece of scrap from the same thing you use for the trim and test it. Then just match the finish to the piece (high gloss, satin or matte). It’s a piece of cake.

Not sure what area you live in, but check out local consignment/antique stores in the meantime. Years ago I picked up a solid oak entertainment center for $400. The most similar unit in stores was selling for for over $3000.

I soft peddaled the amount the first time around, being sensitive to your shock and horror at a two thousand dollar price tag. Notice I said “at least”. I’m not trying to grind your face in it, I’m just a little embarrased coming in with the low bid yet again. :wink:

Is it possible to obtain extra shelves on the pretense of needing more storage. You can use the shelves as raw materials for your trim pieces. The shelves will already be finished. Split the six inch difference to three inches both sides for a balanced appearance. If the store has a cabinet that came in broken, you might even be able to get a side of the broken cabinet for a price. That might help, because the piece will be full length.

One more recommendation if you’re going to shop for cabinetmakers…

Ask to visit sites that are currently under construction. That way you can see how carefully they’re CURRENTLY treating the home and homeowners. and how the work looks when it’s only half completed. Many people will absulutely GASP aloud when they find that their old cabinets have been ripped apart and there’s not a worker to be found… making them wonder if they’re ever returning!