Vader has no idea what Obi-Wan has been doing the last twenty years, though.
He could be thinking “Why is he holding back? He used to run along the ceiling lopping heads off. What trick does he have up his sleve?”.
Later, in episode IV, Obi-Wan is able to talk in Luke’s ear. In episode V, he shows up as a type 9 free floating appartion. Has this been explained? Is it knowledge of the force that lets him cheat death? Obi-Wan manifests some force power that Vader couldn’t (yet). (One of Palpatines inducments to Annakin was the cheating death trick, to be used on Padme.)
Exactly. And if Luke had given into his anger and killed Vader, he either would have gone over to the dark side or been toast. In the short run the Dark Side seems more powerful, but in the long run the Good Side is. The reason I like this final scene so much that Lucas illustrates this very well.
That’s pretty much how I always saw their fight, even as a kid. I always thought they were just squaring off, then Ben quit before they started the real fighting.
Kind of like how two boxers might take a couple half-hearted jabs at the start before they really get busy. So I never thought of it as a pathetic “fight” as much as a stare down.
Luke refused to kill Vader, displaying the “good” side. Paplatine was close to killing him (Luke). Only Vader’s intervention saved Luke, not some awesome display of force knowledge.
If Vader had passed out (due to the shock of losing a hand), what would the “good” side of the force have done for Luke? The ability to come back as a ghost and haunt Palpatines sleeping quarters?
I’ve always felt that way about the final duel, that Luke was able to channel anger in a positive way in spite of his teachers’ warnings and Palpatine’s temptation.
I’m really impressed by your analysis of Luke’s character - you actually made me like him more.
That’s the whole point: Vader was able (in more than one sense) to save Luke precisely because Luke had embraced the Light Side by sparing Vader. It’s things like that that are the reason why Good wins in the long run.
EDIT:
Not knowingly. It’s a bit subtle and easy to miss, but it’s there. Someone-or-other tells someone-else-or-other (Yoda tells Obi-Wan?) that an old friend would like to speak with him, and blue ghost Qui-Gonn appears, to someone-else-or-other’s joy. Unless I’m manufacturing memories again… I hate it when that happens.
if you remember, Luke predicted he was going to die. Being the best Jedi does not involve being the roughest, toughest, force user. That was Anakin’s tragic flaw (one of them, anyway.) I suspect Luke’s plan was to divert Vader and the Emperor long enough to get the screen down and have the Death Star destroyed. That he saved his father and escaped intact was just lagniappe.
It is very similar to the situation in the beginning of the movie. Luke didn’t rescue Han and dispose of Jabba by a frontal attack, but by walking into the lion’s den and becoming a prisoner. I doubt the original plan involved the sand barge - the light saber in R2 would have come in handy in many other circumstances.
At the end of Revenge of the Sith, Yoda sends Obi-Wan back to Tatooine and with a knowing nod says something like “an old friend” would continue training Obi-Wan, at which point Ewan McGregor puts on a ridiculously joyous face and practically squeals “Qui-Gonn!” like a little girl saying “You got me a pony!”
I don’t believe Qui-Gonn appeared in blue-ghosty form though. I think he was supposed to but Liam Neeson didn’t want to film it.
Prior to that, when Anakin was slaughtering the sand people, Yoda heard Qui-Gonn’s disembodied voice yell “No, Anakin! No!” and that’s the first time that Yoda had heard a dead Jedi’s voice. I read a version in which Yoda was surprised by this and started to concentrate of the voice, and it was the start of the Jedi ghost-evolution. In the actual movie, all they have is Yoda looking alarmed (“feeling” that Anakin was getting all sand-people-choppy), then hearing Qui-Gonn’s voice “No, Anakin! No!”, and you see Yoda go: “Hmm…” There was no other explanation or exposition about hearin Qui-Gonn’s voice in that scene.
But by then, Vader has given up the Jedi ways and embraced the Sith path. So all that cheating was perfectly fair for evil. Plus, at first Vader only engages one-handed and doesn’t have to do much with that hand at that. It’s only toward the end of that fight that Luke is able to step up his game and bring out Vader’s anger, and then Vader actually commits to fighting Luke.
Course, with the prequels, Lucas crapped all over Obi-Wan’s description of the era of light sabers and Jedi, but hey.
Snerk
Because “Strike me down, and I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.” Yeah, I’ll be able to manifest as a glowy image to the 2 people that actually knew me! So there!
Yep, totally.
Interesting observations and a different perspective. To some extent, Luke’s anger did allow him to unleash his skill, which lead him to victory over Vader. But it was recognizing that the battle was won and being able to tame his rage that was the victory of light over dark. Too often giving in to the rage and anger leads to loss of control, and that is what the Jedi try to avoid. That is why they preach against it. Being able to channel but contain it is far harder. It’s not letting the rage flow that is hard, it’s stopping it before it goes too far that’s the real trick.
But it was Luke’s good side that lead to the redemption of Vader.
Nobody ever said that Good can’t lose. Palpatine is just way more powerful than Luke, or even that Luke is aware is possible. Yoda would have been able to handle Palpy’s electric hands, but Luke was never prepared for that kind of force kick, and was largely incapacitated. With more training, he could learn to focus, deflect, absorb it. The short run, Palpy would have fried Luke. But Luke’s faith in his father was the magic ace up his sleeve. Palpy had lightning, Luke had love.
Are you sure about that characterization? I don’t think Vader qualifies as a mid-level officer. I think he more stands outside the military chain of command. He’s a special agent, directly responsible to the Emperor himself, acting on behalf of the Emperor for specific goals. He can direct fleets when necessary, and disciplines officers regularly, but is not officially in chain-of-command, as we see in Star Wars, where he defers to the authority of Admiral craggy-face.
That’s why he can hire bounty hunters, take a fleet to Hoth, or personally pilot a Tie Fighter in the first Death Star assault. When he shows up at the Second Death Star in RotJ, he is bringing the Emperor’s personal message - the Right Hand of the Emperor - and that is why he gets the royal treatment, and why when he prods them about schedule it has a chilling effect. Why he can go to the surface of Endor to personally collect Luke. It isn’t his job to be an officer in the chain of command, it’s his job to run special errands and instill fear.
It was poor word choice on my part.