OK, well, clearly you don’t think I’m arguing in good faith, so I’m not sure why you’re bothering to respond to me at all.
Cite?
To be clear, I’m not making the point that he literally believes in an oppression pyramid that he points to and talks about. I didn’t bring up an “oppression pyramid”.
What Dean does is support a form of progressivism that is toxic, as exemplified by the way it torpedoed the “Unfuck American Tour”, which brought together a large number of content creators of similar caliber to Dean (although he and Parker are the largest).
This guy, and the tour built around him, was supposed to be the Left’s answer to the Right’s radicalization of young white men. And it fell apart because the organizer of the PAC funding the event was supposedly “microaggressive”.
I’m happy to provide cites about this, but I just want to be clear about what I’ve been arguing, because I don’t want to be accused of moving goal posts.
Actually, you are happy to make the claim that you could provide cites about this because, as everyone knows, claiming that cites exist is much easier than actually providing them, right?
This is the unsupported claim you’ve made. A single incident doesn’t support the claim that it’s the “dominant form of progressivism”.
So what kind of analysis would satisfy you? If we look at the handful of biggest left aligned content creators on a handful of platforms* and see whether they fall into this sort of behavior, is that what you’d want to see?
*Hold on, you do agree that content creators matter because that’s the way most Gen Z people consume information, including political information? Or is that a conversation we need to have first?
I know it is, because people here have applied it to me when I was being sincere, just like Babale just did to LHoD.
I strongly suspect it was invented because some people were frustrated their code of ethics didn’t allow them to be rude and offensive to those who were arguing politely, when they were offended by the ideas being expressed. So they made up this bullshit meme about how being polite is somehow bad and indicates disingenuousnous.
No, I don’t believe those replies represent disingenuous. They’re rationalisation, which is a normal response to having your ideas questioned.
I’d say content consumption would be a better measure, though it’s probably harder to measure (and that would still only cover social media, which may be the most significant medium young people consume, but it’s not the only one). I don’t know exactly what would satisfy me – obviously a single incident (and with limited cites, if any!) isn’t enough. But you’re the one who made such a definitive claim – if you want me to accept it as anything other than just a random, unsupported opinion from a random internet person, then you need to provide more evidence. If you’re content with others treating it as such, then no need to provide any more evidence.
To be clear, I didn’t apply it to LHOD; I pointed out that it’s what he was doing to me. Hence the “yeah yeah yeah”. And I only did that because LHOD accuses others of sea lioning.
That’s why I said:
They’re biggest by virtue of having their content consumed the most, no? That’s how we measure how big someone on a platform is, no?
Not directly. Maybe (hypothetically) the biggest ones are on the extremes, but creators 20-1000 have a much larger audience than 1-19, and 20-1000 are much “smarter”/less extreme.
Typically the biggest creators are the popular ones and the smaller creators cluster around the big ones (they’re called “orbiters”); they start their stream a bit before the big people (a “Waiting Room”), either restream their content or stream reactions to it, and then keep streaming after the big creators are done (and when a big creator ends a stream they’ll redirect their viewers to one of their “orbiters”).
The smaller creators generally echo the view of the big creators they “orbit” because that’s how they get views.
Individual streamers are usually part of communities of like-minded streamers, most of them smaller. It’s not a free-for-all marketplace of ideas.
In addition to the lack of cites, there’s an awful lot of language like “typically”, “a bit”, “generally”, etc., that lead me to be less than confident that this fully explains this phenomenon (and thus its accuracy as a measure for the kind of content young people are seeing).
I’m not going to cite every sentence I make. If there are specific points you want me to cite, I’m happy to do so. But I am wary of goal post shifting. So if there’s a particular point you want to discuss, nail it down and we can argue about it. Otherwise, I’ll be spending all day looking for individual cites only to be told “sorry, that’s not what I was asking”.
Because @Babale is our self-proclaimed Zoomer expert, let’s just let him list the most powerful content creators for the progressive, liberal, centrist, conservative camps (how ever he wants to divide these) that are representative of these groups.
Totally up to you. I think you’re making a random unsupported internet claim, and so far you’ve offered nothing that would suggest anything different.
He has my permission!
No. I accuse you of being an insufferable asshole whenever there’s a serious conversation to be had, with your ROFLs and your aLtErNaTe caps and your frequent but intermittent sneering condescension.
I’ll be blunt and rough in conversation, but I’m not going to engage in that sort of obnoxious behavior. If my calling bullshit offends you, lemme know and I won’t say it to you. Your shittery makes conversation with you impossible.
Progressives -
Brian Tyler Cohen is huge on YouTube
Hasan Piker (would not describe himself as progressive but his audience certainly is) is huge on Twitch and TikTok
On TikTok you had the trio of Dean Withers, Parker, and Harry Sisson, but they cut ties with Harry because he had some kind of sexting scandal.
Liberals -
This space is fucking dead, man. I don’t really know any big liberal content creators that are popular among young people.
Centrist -
Does this category actually exist, or is it all “CeNtRiStS” who say “I criticize both sides” but just happen to always criticize the Democrats? Let’s say there aren’t any major centrist voices either.
CeNtRiStS -
In the fake centrist category, we have Joe Rogan, obviously, he’s fucking massive including with young people. On YouTube.
On Twitch, you have people like Asmongold.
Conservatives -
Andrew Tate and the Paul Brothers are huge with young conservative types. But note that conservatives are also watching the “CeNtRiStS”.
Got it. Things that I do that bother you are valid forms of objectively obnoxious behaviror, and make me an insufferable asshole. Things that you do that bother me, on the other hand, are a problem with the way I choose to interpret them, but you’ll do me the gracious favor of changing your behavior anyways, if I ask.
No, I’m not offended by you “calling bullshit”. I just think it’s bullshit of you to act like putting a rofl smiley in a post is any less offensive than calling someone dishonest to their face under a veneer of civility.
The veneer means shit to me. What matters is the underlying action.