I Pit Babale

[Babale]

@MrDibble

And you think it will actually be that in your NeoIsrael? Not sure if you’re just naive, or absolutely deluded. I mean, theoretically, that should be the situation in current Israeli framework. But it’s not, because Israel is run by racist fucks.

Are you proposing kicking all those racist fucks out of your new Zion?

Do you think America needs to “kick out" all the MAGA supporters to work towards being a more liberal country again?

Wait, never mind, you think America is the root of all evil, don’t you.

@MrDibble

But you support a nation established in such a way that this absolutely can’t not be the case.

You say this, but you provide zero evidence for it.

@MrDibble

So much for free speech, I guess.

When did I claim to be a free speech absolutist?

Is Germany an apartheid because of their laws against advocating against the Constitution?

@MrDibble

Nice of the system to insulate itself from any real opposition to its own structure, I guess. No chance that such absolutely clear-cut words as militant, aggressive, deliberately, valid would ever be twisted into bans on only certain kinds of parties \s

Which is why Germany in 2025 is a totalitarian hellhole apartheid.

@MrDibble

How would your New Zion enforce this? I mean, it’s nominally the case in Israel at the moment that education should be fair: " without discrimination based on religion, race, gender, nationality, ethnic group, socioeconomic background, personal opinions, or political affiliation.”".

Through the courts?

The same courts, by the way, that ruled that even if Arabic isn’t an official language, it has special protection by law and must be widely available?

@MrDibble

NOT having the language of 20% of your citizens also being one is the Apartheid move.

Especially when that language used to have official status and that status was explicitly removed.

When did the state of Israel have Arabic as an official language? What is this revisionist history?

@MrDibble

How would your New Zion enforce this? I mean, it’s nominally the case in Israel at the moment that education should be fair: " without discrimination based on religion, race, gender, nationality, ethnic group, socioeconomic background, personal opinions, or political affiliation.”".

Again, the courts, numbskull.

@MrDibble

In practice, though, because Israel is partly populated by racist chucklefucks, we have the current disparity.

Are you going to remove the racist chucklefucks before you declare your Iudaea Nova? And how will you prevent them from ehem Returning?

Are you actually fucking brain dead? Or a Russian bot? All the ideas I’m outlining are widely supported by parties like Labour. And no, because I’m a Liberal and not a disgusting illiberal fuckwad, I don’t want to round up people who disagree with me to deport them or put them in a Gulag. I’m not a leftist. And I don’t know why you’re jerking off to every term you can think of for a new country. Like a normal fucking person, I believe liberal democracies should improve through incremental reform, not a glorious People’s Revolution.

@MrDibble

At the moment, Arabs aren’t allowed to serve in all military positions - how many Arab pilots has the Air Force had? Rhetorical question: 0.

You understand that these two statements are simply not equivalent, right? That said, to the level that you do have a point, I agree: Israel’s Arab citizens should be better integrated into society, and that includes full military service.

That’s an aspirational goal for the country, and can be achieved through the courts and through gradual change. It doesn’t require a new country.

@MrDibble

And after serving, although officially that means the Arab veterans now have access to all the benefits of service, in practice they still face lots of discrimination.

Discrimination is obviously bad and should be fought against. Through political reform, not through whatever fucking delusional nonsense you’re on.

@MrDibble

So in your shiny new country,

Wank wank wank wank… now I understand why they call you “MrDribble”. What the fuck are you on about?

When someone talks about changes they want to see happen in the US, do you screech at them “where will your new America even come from, Mars? HAUHAHIEHEHUEEHAHAHA”.

@MrDibble

So in your shiny new country, how will such discrimination be outlawed? Will Arabs automatically be trusted just like Jews?

Ideally, through an explicit statement in the Constitution that’s eventually written that says that all citizens are to be treated equally. Like in any other country, including all the European Nation-States that you manage to refrain from publicly masturbating about abolishing.

[Babale]

By the way, to be clear; I personally am not opposed to Arabic being an official language, and depending on the law being proposed to make it so, I very well might support it. My point is only that it is incredibly fucking stupid to claim that the lack of Arabic as an official language would make the country an Apartheid.

[Babale]

@Broomstick

I realize this is the Pit and asking for a factual answer is a bit of a tangent, but any of those nations with a designated official religion automatically admit refugees of the same religion without question or qualification as Israel admits Jews?

Note: I’m not passing any judgement on the practice, just inquiring how common (or not) it might be.

If there were 26, or even 12, other Jewish countries, then it might be a little less of a priority.

[Broomstick]

That does not, however, answer my question.

[MrDibble]

@Babale

Do you think America needs to “kick out" all the MAGA supporters to work towards being a more liberal country again?

It wouldn’t hurt. Except nobody would take them.

@Babale

Wait, never mind, you think America is the root of all evil, don’t you.

That’s not leaving a lot of room for Israel, now is it…

@Babale

You say this, but you provide zero evidence for it.

It’s the exact current Israeli setup, on paper anyway, and that’s manifestly not equal for Arabs. That’s my evidence.

@Babale

When did I claim to be a free speech absolutist?

Did I say anything about you being an absolutist?

@Babale

Is Germany an apartheid because of their laws against advocating against the Constitution?

Modern Germans have overall proved themselves much more reasonable and dedicated to the principles of liberalism than modern Israelis. I trust them not to abuse those laws. I don’t trust Israelis not to. Since they’re clearly abusing liberal-sounding laws like that right now.

@Babale

Which is why Germany in 2025 is a totalitarian hellhole apartheid.

Germany is not Israel.

One of these countries actually learned the right lessons from the past. One very clearly did not.

@Babale

Through the courts?

The ones currently doing jack-shit to fix the imbalance?

Is this more of you magicing away the actual problems in Israel? Boy, you took the ridiculous American idea of a magical piece of law-paper to heart, didn’t you?

@Babale

When did the state of Israel have Arabic as an official language?

1948-2018.

@Babale

Again, the courts, numbskull.

I don’t think the idiot responding to a quote they repeatedly copied as if it was a fresh comment is in any position to call out intelligence-based insults. Dumbfuck.

@Babale

All the ideas I’m outlining are widely supported by parties like Labour.

All the ideas you’re espousing are nominally actually there (on paper) already.

You don’t need a new Israel, you need new Israelis. The ones you currently have are broken.

@Babale

And I don’t know why you’re jerking off to every term you can think of for a new country.

To be fair, I did repeat “new Zion”. But glad you noticed.

@Babale

liberal democracies

Ha ha ha! Nice one!

@Babale

You understand that these two statements are simply not equivalent, right?

Did I say they were? They’re definitely linked, though - and the link is anti-Arab discrimination.

@Babale

That’s an aspirational goal for the country, and can be achieved through the courts and through gradual change.

The courts aren’t doing anything about the discrimination now, and what is going to drive this gradual change? The real demographic growth in your country is via the settlements. They’re hardly bastions of pro-Arab sentiment.

Are you going to drive it, comfortably ensconced in … Haifa? Tel Aviv? Oh wait…

@Babale

not through whatever fucking delusional nonsense you’re on.

I haven’t actually proposed anything yet.

@Babale

do you screech at them

Oh, “screeching”, that’s almost a classic.

I’ve been doing this a long time, you think you’re the first fool attempting Reductio ad Ridiculum at me?

@Babale

Ideally, through an explicit statement in the Constitution that’s eventually written that says that all citizens are to be treated equally.

You mean, like Israel already pays lip service to? How does that change … anything?

@Babale

Like in any other country, including all the European Nation-States

You mean the ones not currently actively engaging in genocide? Gosh, wonder why they get a pass?

@Babale

publicly masturbating about abolishing.

Happy for Israel to continue to exist. As an Apartheid state, not so much.

@Babale

My point is only that it is incredibly fucking stupid to claim that the lack of Arabic as an official language would make the country an Apartheid.

Didn’t say that, despite this being your second try at building that strawman. Said that the removal of official status from Arabic is a symptom of Apartheid.

What makes Israel an Apartheid state is a bunch of racist Israelis.

[Babale]

@MrDibble

You don’t need a new Israel, you need new Israelis. The ones you currently have are broken.

Yikes. Imagine if someone said this about Palestinians on October 8… We’d all rightly point out exactly what sort of disgusting, racist, dehumanizing pieces of shit they are.

[MrDibble]

If you’d said it about Hamas, I’d be right there with you.

I think I’d been clear in my previous post that not all Israelis are the racist shitbags who keep Israel the Apartheid hellhole for Arabs that it currently is. I did say “partly populated by racist chucklefucks” after all, those are the broken ones I meant.

But mea culpa, I should have used clearer language: Many of the ones you currently have are broken. Better?

Would you like a cite for how in 2016 half of Israeli High Schoolers thought Arabs shouldn’t be allowed in the Knesset, or how 59% self-identified as right wing, or do you think they’ve all magically become liberals after graduating?

[Babale]

@MrDibble

If you’d said it about Hamas, I’d be right there with you.

I wouldn’t say it, but if someone did say it about the 70% of Palestinians who were polled as supporting Hamas last year, I still think we’d all agree that’s pretty gross.

The fact is that every country, including yours, and including Germany which you praised a moment ago (remember that AFD is a thing…) has those sorts of people. Supporting the people who oppose those groups and hoping that they win out isn’t magic, it’s the basis of every functional political movement.

[We_re_wolves_not_werewolves]

@Great_Antibob

What kind of proudly ignorant asshole are you?

“I can’t be bothered to actually know what I’m talking about but I’ll spout off opinions like I do!”

And you admit that?

now this is a funny comment. You apparently didn’t even bother to read the post I was responding to

@MrDibble

You must not have read this thread, then. It wasn’t started because of his genocide cheerleading.

it specifically referenced the start of the thread, so I made a point of explicitly stating that I had read.

And my spouted opinion was about what kind of poster Babale was. Do you need to read every single one of a users posts to have an opinion on them?

[DeadTreasSecretaries]

Well I’m convinced. A 2 state solution will not solve literally all problems.

[MrDibble]

@Babale

I wouldn’t say it

I would - Hamas are fundamentally broken people.

@Babale

if someone did say it about the 70% of Palestinians who were polled as supporting Hamas last year, I still think we’d all agree that’s pretty gross.

Depends very much on how the question was phrased, and how the poll was administered, but overall, I’m happy to say the 70% of people still supporting Hamas are fundamentally broken in some way, yes.

@Babale

remember that AFD is a thing

…and…? Hasn’t changed Germany’s ongoing “no genocide” policy. 80 years and still quite steadfast on that front. If only Israel could say the same.

@Babale

Supporting the people who oppose those groups and hoping that they win out isn’t magic

Thinking it will change anything when the trends in Israel are clear is the magical thinking.

@Babale

it’s the basis of every functional political movement.

Hopes and prayers aren’t the basis of political change, action is.

@DeadTreasSecretaries

A 2 state solution will not solve literally all problems.

Certainly not one where most Jewish Israelis are suddenly magically well-inclined to Arab Israelis absent any outside motivation, no.

[Babale]

@MrDibble

I would - Hamas are fundamentally broken people

If you read past the comma, I said I wouldn’t say that the 70% of Palestinians who support Hamas are broken and need to be replaced. Obviously actual Hamas members are a different story.

[DeadTreasSecretaries]

What an dumb move by MLK supporting the civil rights act. What were white americans going to do, suddenly stop being racist?

[Broomstick]

@MrDibble

I think I’d been clear in my previous post that not all Israelis are the racist shitbags who keep Israel the Apartheid hellhole for Arabs that it currently is. I did say “partly populated by racist chucklefucks” after all, those are the broken ones I meant.

Uh-huh. And then you go ahead and talk in absolutist terms with

@MrDibble

You don’t need a new Israel, you need new Israelis.

Which is it?

@MrDibble

But mea culpa, I should have used clearer language:

Yes, you should have. Words matter.

[Broomstick]

@DeadTreasSecretaries

Well I’m convinced. A 2 state solution will not solve literally all problems.

Let’s all be honest here - a 2 state solution would in no way guarantee peace. One would hope it would guarantee neither side is wiped out in a genocide but there is every possibility that even 2 stable nations would still be in conflict with each other, perhaps even go to war with each other from time to time. On the other hand, what’s been tried up to this point hasn’t worked, either.

A 2 state solution could make peace possible. It will not make it certain. At this point there would need to be a lot of additional work just to maintain a long-term period of not shooting at each other.

[MrDibble]

@Babale

, I said I wouldn’t say that the 70% of Palestinians who support Hamas are broken and need to be replaced

I said they were broken, I didn’t say they needed to be replaced.

In case it wasn’t clear, I don’t think broken racist Israelis need to be replaced, either. Just pointing out that your Cloudcuckooland Israel plan wouldn’t work without replacing them.

@DeadTreasSecretaries

What an dumb move by MLK supporting the civil rights act.

Is this supposed to be some kind of direct analogy? Because MLK actually put his butt on the line for the fight, he didn’t just post about it from California like babale.

@DeadTreasSecretaries

What were white americans going to do, suddenly stop being racist?

Call me when they do stop. Not electing Republicans would be the first sign. Just FYI, I’m not holding my breath in the meantime…

@Broomstick

Which is it?

The one where I explicitly reiterated said what I meant? Why are you asking which it is when I said in the very post you’re quoting what I actually meant?

@Broomstick

On the other hand, what’s been tried up to this point hasn’t worked, either.

The one thing that hasn’t been tried yet is what actually worked to stop some genocides in the past.

[DeadTreasSecretaries]

@MrDibble

Call me when they do stop. Not electing Republicans would be the first sign. Just FYI, I’m not holding my breath in the meantime

My point is that MLK didn’t immediately end racism, but the 1960s reforms that happened as a result of the civil rights movement clearly improved the country and it would be silly to think that because America chose not to deport all racists or something it was a bad idea.

[MrDibble]

Would you have had the current backsliding situation if racists hadn’t been largely tolerated?

You’re speaking of the American civil rights story as though it’s a done deal. As though America isn’t currently actually in some ways more racist than it was in the 60s, just to different demographics.

[puzzlegal]

I wasn’t old enough on the 60s to have a direct comparison. But i was also reading this thread and thinking, “the trend in the US is scary, and those currently in power are doing their best to undo all the civil rights progress that has been made since reconstruction.

And then there are the people being kidnapped off the streets by masked thugs and shipped to prison camps in the US and Venezuela.

[Babale]

@MrDibble

I think I’d been clear in my previous post that not all Israelis are the racist shitbags who keep Israel the Apartheid hellhole for Arabs that it currently is. I did say “partly populated by racist chucklefucks” after all, those are the broken ones I meant.

@MrDibble

As has been pointed out, repatedly - this one is NOT true. It only can seem true if it passes without comment, if “everyone knows what I really meant”.

Well, no, I don’t know you from Adolf, why am I supposed to know you mean some “innocuous” form of the extremely racist stereotype you’re repeating?

Interesting juxtaposition there. It’s really important that we are super careful with our language when we say things like “black people are good at basketball” (the comment by @Dr.Strangelove that prompted the quoted comment). Because not everyone knows what you mean when you say that black people are good at basketball - they might mistake you for a racist.

On the other hand, statements like “Israelis are fundamentally broken” are totally reasonable and if we aren’t being super charitable towards you in our interpretation of the phrase we are being ridiculous.

I find that dichotomy fascinating.

And frankly, I don’t buy it. I don’t know you from Khomenei.