One, Bakri is more of a joke than anything. Read Them, by Jon Ronson. You’ll get a far different picture of him. He’s the Islamic-radical equivalent of the modern Klansman - startling, but not scary… and eventually just funny.
Second, it doesn’t matter whether I know that. In Britain, you have the wonderful legal principle that one is innocent until proven guilty- and Bakri, as far as I am aware, has not been charged with anything, much less convicted.
Could you do us a favour then and give us a list of parralel thread subjects that the OP should have started along with this one that would have satisfied your obvious strong sense of fair play? FFS!
It’s headline news, it’s the first time in quite a while that a Mosley wannabe has had such success and you’re wondering why someone started a thread about this and not something else? Really?
Workmate: That episode of the Ross show was a bit weak last night.
telebox: I totally respect your point but I cannot let you continue until you address all the sub-standard talk shows. What about Paul O’Grady, Loose Women, Phil and Fern?
Workmate: But I watched it last night and …
telebox: Chris Moyles, Richard and Judy, Harold Wilson with a pipe no less. Why, why, why do you not address them?
Workmate: …
Why does this line of argument always come up when dealing with fascists/racism?
The BNP suck!
Yes, but what about Islamicists?
or…
The Holocaust was an abhorrent crime!
Yes, but what about Stalin’s treatment of his own people?
or…
Slavery was a great evil!
Yes, but what about black leaders in Africa abusing their own people?
It’s almost like the people who do it have an axe to grind.
Could it be because the contexts for these two extreme political positions are very different?
In one case you have the extreme end of an immigrant or immigrant-descended group, the great majority of whom are peaceful Britons. In the interests of that overall group, so as not exacerbate prejudice or foment extremism, reasonable people do not take to the streets to protest the non-elected proponents of such extremism.
By contrast, you have the representative of a political party that claims to speak for “indigenous” Britons. Britons of any background can protest these extreme white views knowing that there is no fear of exacerbating prejudice against a minority because “indigenous” Britons are the majority of the population.
In sum: Whereas white Britons who want to ally with non-extremists among their immigrant or immigrant-descended fellows have little incentive to take to the streets over a vocal extremist with no official political power, they have a clear incentive to protest the political legitimization of a racist politician who claims to speak for them.
Fear not the religion of peace has struck back with constructive debate …
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090609/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan
Allah be praised.
Don’t all rush to reply - a BNP representative might use a naughty word in reference to this incident.
Feel free to keep this thread with regular updates on people murdered by the BNP and by islamic extremists.
Huh? Are you now suggesting that those who protested the BNP support suicide bombers in Pakistan?
villa / yojimbo
You don’t live in the UK. I do. The issue of the BNP therefore concerns me and this country not you in Ireland or the USA. Likewise the bombings that occured in '05, and the agitating for further attacks.
If my opinion doesn’t sit well with you two , too frigging bad.
Nope. But you have agree that their debating skills certainly convey their disapproval very effectively.
Well, no, because I don’t think the debate has ever been about suicide bombers or the Taliban. Surely you don’t believe that average Pakistani immigrant in Britain is cheering on the suicide bombers, do you? And do you think that if some particular Pakistani immigrant publicized that view that he or she would be cheered on by anti-BNP protestors?
Anyway, I offered you an answer to your question which has nothing to do with suicide bombings so perhaps you can think that over.
Heh.
Try a Brit board then flyboy. If you don’t like a foreigner on your case on a international board, well, too frigging bad as it were. You seem to have no problem in talking about Eastern Bloc countries and Pakistani affairs.
In closing, lick my bag.
Well, this Londoner would like you to stop being a twat and start using that thing between your ears to think for a bit. Or do you only listen to your countrymen when they agree with you?
Well, then, honesty needs to be brought out. An honest mechanism such as “to register a vote for the BNP, publicly drop trou and crap on the grave of a WWII veteran” will do.
According to this poll, about 24% of UK Muslims feel suicide bombing can be justifiable. I don’t know which is the most disturbing result of that poll, that number or the finding that only 40% of US Muslims believe Arabs were responsible for 9/11. Maybe they think Bin Laden is an Eskimo or something.
That is rather shocking (the relevant stuff starts on p. 57).
A thread about the BNP ends up being a thread about how bad fundamentalist Muslims are? Nick Griffin would LOVE that.
Although the statistics are certainly interesting and would be worth discussing in a thread on that topic here are several reasons why they don’t do very much to explain telebox’s views in this thread:
The survey says that when asked if suicide bombing is justified “in order to defend Islam from its enemies” 70% of British Muslims–not immigrants mind you, just Muslims–replied “never,” 9% rarely, 12 % sometimes, and 3% often (with the remainder not answering). This is in answer not to a question that asks about supporting Taliban violence in Pakistan but about “defending Islam from its enemies” (probably evoking the Palestinian situation most of all). Yet 70% still answer never and 9% rarely. So, yes, much though the figure could be even higher, the great majority of UK Muslims opposes suicide bombing to defend Islam from its enemies–even in Israel one must conclude. (Doubtless the number of Pakistani immigrants or Pakistani-descended Britons who support the Taliban’s attacks in Pakistan is significantly lower.) The survey also says that 52% of British Muslims are “very concerned” and 25% “somewhat concerned” about the rise of Islamic extremism in the world–once again, the great majority of UK Muslims feel much as telebox, presumably, could wish them to.
The BNP’s anti-immigration position and focus on “indigenous” Britons is not only offensive to Muslims but to many other immigrant groups: non-Muslim Indians, Africans, Afro-Caribbeans, and Eastern Europeans, for example.
Even if one concludes from this survey that 70% isn’t good enough, the answer to reaching out to these British Muslims is not to support the racist and Islamophobic BNP. Agreed?
Finally–and most pertinent to telebox’s comments on the topic–who among the anti-BNP protestors is defending the actions of the recent suicide bombers or any other suicide bombers or defending any Muslims or other immigrant or immigrant-descendent groups who speak out in support of suicide bombers?
As to American Muslims, the report (which is actually about American Muslims) seems to regard them as largely “middle-class and mainstream.” The stat about 9/11 attackers is pretty bizarre but then again doesn’t an even greater number of (presumably non-Muslim) Americans, well over 50% IIRC, think that Iraqis were the 9/11 attackers?
That’s not a site I frequent.
QFT
Well you had your chance to do something about it last Thursday.
Unfortunately one of the downsides of a Democracy is the fact that sometimes we get representatives that either we don’t like or who don’t represent our views.
Throwing eggs and complaining after the fact and trying to ban them is ridiculous. Next time we just need more people to vote against them and they won’t get in.
As others have already said the BNP councillors always seem to perform poorly when in office, so they will shoot themselves in the foot and be out at the next election. Why get so wound up about it? It’s not like they have enough clout to make a difference and they will never get the support to be a party of government, would you get this cross over the Monster Raving Loony Party? What if a muslim extremist stood as an independent and was elected, would you object then? It could happen, possibly in Bradford.
I remember a classic Punch cartoon about that. Thatcher is talking to a little old Asian guy outside his corners store and saying
‘I’m sorry Mr Patel, but you are swamping us with your alien culture’.
Above them both loom giant McDonald’s, Burger King, Coke and Pepsi signs.