I think you mean it’s offensive to you, because it isn’t offensive to me. And obviously, it wasn’t offensive to the medal’s owner, Mr. Thomas.
Or it has the significance that its owner assigned to it.
You might have me confused with someone else. Mr. Thomas is as entitled to his opinion of Bush as I am to mine or you are to yours. I don’t have to agree that Bush deserves Mr. Thomas’s medal in order to say that Mr. Thomas is entitled to think differently. There are people (well, Diogenes mainly) acting like Thomas broke some objective moral standard, which is not the case. My tyrant could well be Mr. Thomas’s hero.
ETA:
In other words, if you want to say that Thomas and his wife are idiots, that’s fine by me and I won’t argue. But to say that they did something immoral, or Bush did something objectively wrong is, in my view, simply wrong.
With this post, I think I may bow out of at least the Purple Heart part of the discussion, for two reasons. One, I agree that the subject is fairly trivial, even if it does seem fairly clear-cut, and two, the discussion has taken a turn in which I’m no longer certain I understand what all the disputants are saying.
By “owner,” you mean Mr. Thomas, right? Is there any question in your mind that the “significance” being “assigned” is anything other than what he told the newspaper it is? Namely, that GWB deserves a Purple Heart because the verbal attacks he has suffered are equivalent to the physical wounds thousands of soldiers have sustained in combat? Is there any question here that this “gift” (or whatever neutral word one might wish to use) is intended to carry that message? Is there any question that Mr. Thomas was invited to the White House for an event in which the president appeared in the Oval Office to allow Thomas to repeat his gesture? Is there any question that this constitutes official approval of Thomas’ statement? I mean, what part of this are you choking on?
Yeah, you’re just a face in the crowd. Everybody’s entitled to their opinion. Nobody’s entitled to have that opinion endorsed by the president of the United States. If it is, then it isn’t just their opinion any more. It’s theirs, and that of the president. No matter how stupid it is.
Ah, let’s split the difference. If you believe that handing a Purple Heart to a “war president” who has endured many harsh words while something like 30,000 American servicemen were being killed and injured by bullets and bombs is something of an insult to actual winners of the medal, then Thomas is certainly complicit in the slur. I doubt if he intended the insult to his fellows, though.
Maybe, but that doesn’t make either of you worthy of presidential approbation for your philosophy.
And you may want to reconsider the assertion that ownership of an object confers the right to do whatever one wants with it. A little reflection will illuminate some important exceptions, I’m sure.
Well, I never said that one has a right to do whatever one wants with an object he owns. I said that one has a right to give an object he owns to anyone he wishes. I don’t think he had the right to, say, throw it at the president with aggressive intent. But he certainly had the right to compose a citation, take out his medal and ribbon, hand them over to his Congressman, and ask him to hand them over to the president.
The president then had the right to decide whether to accept or reject it. He, rightly in my view, decided to accept it — not a military issued Purple Heart as a medal for combat injury, but Mr. Thomas’s own personal Purple Heart that Mr. Thomas, practically his neighbor by Texas standards, wanted to give him. He did so in a private, dignified meeting that Mr. Thomas said was the highlight of his life.
From that perspective, it is hard to see protest over this as anything other than pettiness.
Okey-dokey then, Liberal. I thought I could catch up to you at Thomas’ own words, which you seemed once to care about, but I’m obviously not going to coax you any closer to an answer than I already have, at least as far as the meaning of Mr. Thomas’ use of his Purple Heart is concerned (in conjunction with his own statements and his written “citation”), and what it means for a president to lend his office and presence to that statement. Regardless of the symbolism inherent in the medal itself (which is readily available), and (in spite of what you said earlier) regardless of the message Mr. Thomas himself has said he wishes to convey, you want to see the episode as one man delivering a rhubarb pie to his neighbor, who happens to be the chief executive and lives 2500 miles away. Fine, but at this point communication kind of breaks down. I might have something more to say in this thread, but I can’t think of anything else to add to or subtract from the Purple Heart debate.
I fully agree with all of this.
And I completely disagree with this.
As I’ve already said, Bush turns down hundreds of gifts every week. And he publicly accepted this one. And he did so knowing what Thomas meant by the gift. So he can make whatever kind of empty demurral he wants about how unworthy he is, but the bottom line is when it was offered to him he accepted it. He went out of his way to accept it. Saying “I don’t deserve this…” doesn’t mean much when it’s followed by “…but give it to me.”
Come to think of it, I wonder if that “citation” really is affixed with a pineapple-shaped magnet to the front of a Sub-Zero in the kitchen at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
NOT PUBLICLY! Unless you care to provide evidence to the contrary.
Dammit, if the whole country was against me (and I certainly hope that it IS, in the case of Chimpy), I’d be grateful for an excuse to spend twenty minutes with an individual who wasn’t.
Twenty minutes that, in kaylasdad99’sHO, would be more productively spent in consultation with Dr. Kevorkian…
But then there would still be the problem of what to do about Dead-eye Dick.
Just a quiet little informal get-together. In the Oval Office.
…which, while the property of the public, is not a public forum, 99% of the time…
PLEASE don’t let this non-event distract you from what’s important. What do you think will be revealed in Monica Goodling’s testimony before Congress? Do you think the Administration will try to block it from happening? If so, what will you think of that?
GQ-type question: Suppose, that with immunity, Goodling decides to testify. Can the WH stop her?
Let’s assume no Vince Foster-esque scenarios.
“The damage that can be done through false accusation can end with a result every bit as extreme as a bullet. The pen is mightier than the sword.”
“What did you do in the war, Grampa?” “Why, I called Saddam a motherfucker, son.”
*At the dawn of the 21st century an embattled president, desperate to change America’s fortunes in the Middle East, reaches out to what remains of his “base.” From their ranks he selects and personally trains an elite fighting force unique in military history: one that eschews not only weapons but conventional violence of any kind.
Far from the safety of the battlefield, these intrepid warriors employ the harshest language, vituperation and sly innuendo against all enemies of the red, white and blue. Their exploits are the stuff of legend.*
Wholecloth productions proudly presents–
SERGEANT SCYLLA and SLANDER SQUAD SEVEN (in COLOR)
Episode XIV: PREsennnnt…Malice!
Pinned down in op-ed hell, as slurs and unfounded accusations whistle over the trenches, our hero racks his brain for a strategy.
Scylla: All right, you mugs, what’ve we got left for ammo?
Bertram: We’re scraping the bottom of the barrel, Sarge.
Fenton: And not in the good way, either.
Muffy: When the next wave comes at us I’ll be reaching for the yo-momma jokes.
Whizzer: My Scaife bag’s empty, Sarge. For the last ten minutes I’ve been tellin’ the truth!
(Suddenly, an unexploded libel bounces into the trench)
Scylla: Everybody down!
Fenton: (lunges forward) Tell my mother that I-- (libel detonates)
Muffy: (Pause) Well, I’m certainly not telling his mother that.
Bertram: Fenton saved us all.
Whizzer: The bastard. (His head jerks up) And I never said I invented the internet! (Slumps)
Muffy: Shit! Friendly fire!
Scylla: We’re sitting Kerries here – we gotta move. Muffy, we’ll use the yo-mommas as a diversion. Bertram, can you cover the left with a profane denigration of the appearance of their women?
Bertram: I dunno, Sarge, there’s somethin’ about a brown-eyed – oh, the women? No problem.
Muffy: Sarge, you can’t be thinking…
Scylla: No more thinking, Muffy – time to bug out, fast.
Bertram: I don’t get it. Muffy, where’s the Sarge takin’ us?
Muffy: Hold on to your poison pen, Bertie. The Sarge is taking us on a guided tour – through the no-spin zone…
(Ominous music swells; fade to black)
I bow to you, Master.
ETA: Only I noticed you used potty words. I’m guessing this will run on Showtime, yes?
That’s a little too kind, kaylasdad99. But thanks.
I don’t grok “ETA” but the profanity is a departure in style. I shouldn’t have tried it; it doesn’t come naturally. Besides, Gary Raymond never cussed on Rat Patrol.
“Edited To Add”