Trunk,
I’ve been accused of weak argument in the past, but “totally weak” is a new achievement!
Were you one of the PETA protesters with your dog out in the hot sun on those days?
Do dogs like yelling in anger the mobs of protesters? Booing…hissing? The heat reflecting from the concrete?
I’m not a scientist, but I believe that fur covered by fabric would be hotter and more uncomforatble than just fur. Is this premise really that questionable?
You can take him to a park - to the beach - you can let him rest at home when you see that the heat will be over 90 degrees.
What, are the weather conditions somehow much milder at a park or at a beach? Does the temperature magically go down? I can take my dog to a protest too, if I make sure he doesn’t get overheated and make sure he is hydrated. Not everyone had to adhere to your own personal standards of what must or should be done. So unless you’ve got something other than your own assertion that this behavior was cruel – something, anything at all – you’re just being a blow-hard.
And, just FYI, my dogs (of which I have two) are walked every day, with care taken as to how far we go and how hot the get – and it is hella hot where I live right now. If you think they would be happier trapped in the house all day, deprived of that time outside with me, you’re nuts.
http://www.avma.org/careforanimals/pawsforpets/summer.asp
Soaring temperatures are no more comfortable for dogs and cats than they are for people. Heat prostration is a common cause of summer illness that can, and does, kill many beloved pets each year. If your pet spends a substantial part of its day outside, be sure that you provide a **cool, shady spot ** for it to escape the hot summer sun and plenty of cool, clean water.
The right time for playtime is in the cool of the early morning or evening, but never after a meal or when the weather is humid.
**- Street smarts: When the temperature is very high, don’t let your dog standing on hot asphalt. His or her body can heat up quickly, and sensitive paw pads can burn. Keep walks during these times to a minimum.
This was from a quick search - I’ll get more information later.
Don’t take your pets to crowded summer events such as concerts or fairs. The loud noises and crowds, combined with the heat, can be stressful and dangerous for pets. For your pet’s well being, leave her at home.
Provide plenty of water and shade for your pets while they’re enjoying the great outdoors so they can stay cool.
Dogs, for example, are designed to conserve heat. Their sweat glands, which exist on their nose and the pads of their feet, are inadequate for cooling during hot days. Panting and drinking water helps cool them, but if they only have overheated air to breathe, dogs can suffer brain and organ damage after just 15 minutes.
You have not shown that these animals were spending “a substantial part of their days outside.”
You have not shown that these animals were exerting themselve by play.
You have not shown that these animals were standing on asphalt, or doing so long enough to burn themselves.
You have not shown that these animals were older, overweight, brachycephalic, or had heart or lung disease.
And not every dog is stressed out by crowds, and not every dog is stressed in a bad way. One of my dogs loves crowds, because he loves people and he loves to look around and check things out. The other one hates them – too noisy, too much sensory overload. I would take the one dog to a fair or concert, but not the other. I’m not being cruel to either.
IOW, your cites (and sites) make very valid (if generalized) points for general animal care in hot weather. They are largely irrelevant to your argument that the anti-Vick protesters were being cruel to their animals by having their animals present, because you haven’t shown that the conditions discussed in the links were conditions that existed at the protest.
I was unable to get a copy of the R. times/dispatch for that day. I will supply weather condition, paving material for the 1000 block of Main street in Richmond as well as information from my vet.
I’m unsure how long this will take, but I’m happy to do it.
It won’t be today but I’ll show you what I mean.
Honestly, I wouldn’t bother. None of those items are going to prove that these people were necessarily cruel to take their dogs to the protest. For all you know, they each of them only had their dogs their for a half hour, and gave them lots of water, and took them inside an air conditioned building at regular intervals. Besides, unless you have your vet sign on as a guest, we’re only going to have your word for what he or she says which, with all due respect, is not enough.
Unless you have specific evidence of cruelty to the animals – not weather reports, not generalized information on animal husbandry, not information on road conditions – it is extremely unlikely that I will agree with you that, on the information given, the protesters were themselves guilty of animal cruelty. It’s your time to waste, of course, but you might choose to spend it more wisely.
And let me also note that having reviewed the web postings of the protests outside the courthouse during Vick’s guilty plea, I didn’t see a single actual dog, just a bunch of people dressed up in dog suits.
There is no information on how many animals were present, if any.
There is no information as to how long the protest lasted.
There is no infomration as to how long the animals, if any, were at the protest, however long it lasted.
There is no information as to the conditions (water, shade, A/C, lack of same) the animals, if any, endured.
THAT’s the sort of information you’ll have to come up with. Not the substance the City of Richmond paves its roads with, if the protesters were even in the road, which does not appear to be the case.
Fuck it.
I’ll grant you what you want.
Let’s say it was 100 out that day, and you show up with a time-stamped picture of protester at 11:00am and again at 3:00pm with the same dog.
So what? What’s your point then?
You’re saying that’s “CRUELTY”, akin to what Vick did, but just to a lesser extent so we’re hypocrites for not chastising the protestor, too?
That means we support low-level cruelty?
It’s a person with their dog trying to make a statement about animal cruelty. Even if the dog could be happier at home, so what? Do you think the person’s intention was to hurt the dog? If the dog showed signs of distress, do you think the person would have beat it?
Don’t you think they would have comforted it? Got it some water?
Or, just “cruelty is cruelty”. That’s the argument?
Getting back to Vick (My own dog loves to run outdoors, even in high heat, to the point where I’ve treated her for heat stroke only to have her shakily stand up, pick up a ball, and head for the door). How many of you have met/known people involved with dog fighting?
Due to my profession, I’ve met a few. They are despicable people. Think about what it takes to pit two animals in a fight. Think about what kind of person it takes to do the kinda shit Vick has admitted doing. These people do not, on getting caught, see the error in their ways. The Vick apology was his best attempt at damage control. And it aint gonna work, I hope.
Ok. I give. I’ve been beaten down by the group here, but my opinions remain the same. I won’t add further to the discussion of hypocrits.
I was truly upset when I watched the news footage of dogs with shirts (with the #7 drawn on them) in the hot Virginia sun that day. If no one else ever agrees with me - my sincere feelings remain the same.
I don’t understand why I must be called obtuse and uneducated and have eyes (figuratively)rolled at me. I’m a 49 year old, moderately well educated woman. I’m politically liberal, I’m for gun control, I’m pro choice, I’m an avid reader - I’m many things and I didn’t realize that posting my feelings (that differ from so many) should lead to so much scorn or personal insult.
Hey, I agree that I could not kill any animal, esp. not for fun or sport. But the main difference here between the deer and the dogs is that, up until the point where the deer was injured/killed, it lived its life how deer do, outside, enjoying its life. The dogs don’t have such great lives, from beginning to end. That’s the main difference that I see.
I don’t think the Pit is for you. May I suggest you check out MPSIMS and IMHO, perhaps Great Debates.
I agree with the OP. I was watching Vick’s apology and was thinking to myself, “all he should say is, look, I’m human, I screwed up, I’m sorry. Have a good day.” Done. Don’t stretch it out and make yourself look like you’re trying too hard.
This wasn’t a screwup. Okay? Are we all clear on the fact that something you do for SIX YEARS, and PURCHASE PROPERTY for, and set up as an ongoing business concern, is not a screwup? A screwup is something you do accidentally, or some mistake you make, and usually refers to one time. This is a sustained enterprise deliberately conceived and carried out. It was illegal and immoral from day one, and continued to be for six years. Six years is about as long as World War II. It’s NOT a “screwup.”
I am vegan. I don’t eat cows, hunt deer, or wear leather. I’m not acting holy about it, but I don’t have disabling liabilities that prevent me from cirticsizing Vick.
Ever had a dog? They LOVE being with their people. One of my dogs intentionally lies down in the hot sun and suns herself. I’ve had to roust her up and make her move into the shade all summer.
If you think going for an outing with the pack is cruel to a dog, you don’t understand dogs.
Sailboat
Some of us have learned over the years to just shoot the guilty ones.
Actually, Vick was misheard in Richmond, and he really wasn’t saying he found Jesus. After his press conference, one of his cadre told him that the Falcons were going to get back some of the signing bonus, and he exclaimed a little too loud, “Jesus! Can they do that?”
On hearing that Vick found Jesus, one of my co-workers asked, “where was he hiding, behidn the rape stand?”