Um, when an ADULT actively seeks out sex with a child- whether strictly to get off physically or to meet some weird need they have in their mind- it’s wrong. Either way, that adult is using that child in a sexual manner for their own personal gain. Because it’s an adult USING a child, that’s abuse.
Look, if I go on a murderous rampage because because I’m off my kilter for some reason, I might get a different sentence, but I still need to be separated from society for everybody’s good.
But how would you feel about the person who talks you into going on that murderous rampage? No complicity?
I think that was **Rumor_Watkin’s **point.
Generally speaking of course, I’m not so weak of a person that I could be talked into such a thing by some stranger. Really, do you think if you started a thread "Why Diosa Should Go Shoot Up The Mall’ and everyone told me what an amazing idea it was, egging me on, I’d do it? Would you? Should you go to prison for suggesting I do something?
The fact is, it is a rare person such pushing would genuinely effect and that person is, likely, off their rocker already. In that case, perhaps the person doesn’t deserve the chair for their crime, but they certainly still need to be separated from the general population. Is this the same person that says Marilyn Manson told him to shoot up his school?
C’mon, why are we defaulting to take away all personal responsibility from the actor? If you can so easily be convinced to show up at a young teen’s home with booze, condoms, and whatever else- all with the intent of raping a child— all because a child maybe talked to you online, there’s something wrong with you. Most adults, this would not fly.
If you were “off your kilter” (as I thought was the stipulation in this little passion play) then … maybe. And it doesn’t seem like it would be a very good idea to taunt the happy-fun ball, as it were.
And while I agree that on a certain, personal level, I might feel guilty or have some demons to deal with in regard to my participation in that type of egging on, am I responsible in a greater, social sense? Should I get thrown in jail?
The only example I can think of where someone got in trouble for this type of thing is that MySpace mom that caused the teenage girl to hang herself. But see, that is a case where an adult- obviously somewhat nuts on her own- egged on a clearly ill child. It makes me wonder if Mom would have gotten sentenced had she egged on another adult.
Which to me, brings us back to the point that our society holds adult-child interactions to a higher standard than adult-adult. We expect the adult in the relationship to have a higher level of accountability, even if that person has issues of their own.
And like I said previously: it’s easy for us to look at this particular scenario and say, “There’s no child. It’s an adult pretending to be a child to lure an innocent person.” But to that, I have to reinforce that this really does happen a lot “IRL”. Kids DO meet up with balding, fat old men who use their experience in life to prey on the kids’ emotional weaknesses (and boy, do teens have TONS). Like I said, I had plenty of friends who did it and thought it was ok. I hear kids whispering about it now. It’s scary.
Contact with children is not illegal per se and unless we’re punishing thought crime these guys break no laws until they initiate sex chat. All that I’m saying is wait till they break the fucking law before reeling them in. There is no need for the decoys to start the ball rolling, they do it because they’re over-eager and too gung-ho and they will end up catching people who may never have had the nerve to broach sexual matters and maybe never will. Sure, they’re sad, lonely fucks and potential perverts. Let’s just dangle the bait before them until they offend.
This is bullshit. They can catch plenty of perverts without these entrapment techniques and more power to them. But wait till the fuckers actually offend, don’t persuade them to commit the crime of talking sex with a minor. There’s a slight chance they may not actually take that last step over the cliff. They should not be pushed over.
No, nobody who is not a potential predatory pervert can be enticed to offend. But we don’t persuade potential criminals to commit a crime, that’s called entrapment.
Well, I think there are some different tangents that are getting a work-out, but getting back to what I think my original point was (or one I stole from Rumor_Watkin), is that it seems that there is the possibility that there are many depressed, single, socially awkward, low-self-esteem, below-average intelligence men with a slight twinge of horniness out there who would be content as hell to staying in the parents basement whacking off to the latest JC Penny catalog … if not for some other adult pushing him to do something illegal – even if it is by way of bait.
The’re already predatory perverts simply by virtue of being in those forums looking for victims. Even if you think they’re in those kiddy forums for some totally innocent reason, the second they take the bait and start sending pictures of their cocks to little kids and making “dates” with them they’ve gone from “potential” to fully actualized. No one who isn’t already a scumbag can get caught. Think of it this way, would it ever be a defense to say the kid was aggressive if it really was an 11 year old, and not a decoy?
And it isn’t entrapment. Read the legal definition.
For one thing, it isn’t being done by law enforcement, and for another merely providing an opportunity for something the person was already willing to do is not entrapment.
No, and yes.
When the PJ folks act in coordination with law enforcement, they ARE law enforcement for the purposes of entrapment analysis.
However, your second point is rock solid: when someone is already predisposed to commit the act, there’s no entrapment defense.
Yes, I mean as soon as the person enters the house then there is some argument towards the persons intent to be made.
However, the Internet luring aspect of the program is definitely entrapment. Not to mention that the girls (and boys) they use to catch these guys are not under age makes the whole accusation unfair and not based on actual truth.
PJ people are regularly working more than just one chat venue, other chat systems, craigslist and a variety of tween centric message boards have bait players in place.
You do realize police officers and their agents can lie to suspects?
You’re not a cop, right?
Sweet.
sells drachillix a bag of weed
I am.
And I think that should be made illegal.
Sooo you think undercover policing in general should be illegal?
Not quite. There are certain issues in which going undercover is necessary for the protection of people from harm.
A case like this is not that black and white.
On the internet they are going into the house in a way also. PJ isn’t going into places like the Dope and PMing random guys. These guys are going into child chatrooms to stalk children. They have no other reason to go where they are going. The guys are taking the first giant step.
Would you prefer it if the cops had 13 year olds doing the actual typing? Does that make it any different?
Wouldn’t having a 13 year old do the typing for this type of issue be considered illegal?
It defeats the purpose of doing the whole thing.
At the same time, having an 18 year old doing the sex talk pretending to be a minor is a flat out lie, and even if the person somehow managed to have sex with that person, he would have not broken any laws because that person is of legal age.
Yes, I understand that the charge is “intent of sex with a minor” and other such charges, but I don’t think this is the right way to approach this issue.
Things brings me to an different point, there are countries like Spain and I *believe *Germany, where it is legal to have consensual sex at 15.
Not sure where I stand on which age a person has to be in order to have sex, this makes the issue a whole lot more complex.
12, 13 and 14 are too young, but to say that it is illegal to have sex with 17 year old , whereas an 18 year old is okay is very fuzzy imho.
I seem to recall this conversation occurring some years back, and I don’t recall any showing to the contrary of what I’ve stated. Not saying it doesn’t exist, just don’t recall it showing up in that conversation.
I’m very interested in knowing if there is any law which, in my scenario, would apply and result in a conviction, because that would be extremely disturbing.
I’m not sure what you mean. In a good portion of the US the age of consent is 16. The assumption that below 18 is automatically illegal is false. But it varies greatly from state to state. Regardless, here we are talking about sickos searching out 13 year olds. That is completely different.