I pit DrDeth

Well, I stand corrected.

No, he’s being pitted for being a moron. Other posters in that thread are taking the same position, and aren’t getting pitted. He’s getting pitted because he thinks, “I met Gary Gygax once, and he wasn’t wearing a literal Klan hood, therefore he can’t possibly have been racist,” is a good argument.

I thought this thread was going to be about this gem:

I don’t know, I think the leap to assuming Gygax is racist is pretty iffy.
Gygax borrowed/stole from what was there in Fantasy literature and mainly European myths and legends. It was pretty damn lily white. His area of the world was also pretty lily white. While I doubt he was very enlightened or knowledgeable about African Americans, I don’t think he should be assumed to be racist.

As I said in the thread, I’m sure he was sexist, but my guess is he wasn’t racist, though maybe ignorant.


Damn, I didn’t even like Gygax, why am I defending him?

I first encountered him in a thread about Pleistocene mass extinctions and whether they were due to hunting. He had read some of the scientific literature from decades ago, and quoted those articles. I cited some more recent literature that had a broader view.

Ever after that, when someone posted about Pleistocene extinctions, he would pop in and make exactly the same arguments as before. Sometimes he would cite the article I had originally cited to him as if I might not have seen it to refute me, but completely misunderstanding the point.

Eventually I just gave up. I would just state my points and that I wouldn’t discuss it with him anymore.

He’s also extremely credulous. Here he persistently defends a crackpot “translator” of the Voynich Manuscript despite knowing nothing about the subject.

He also has never learned to quote properly. You can recognize his posts by extremely long quotations in italics instead of a quote box which are usually irrelevant.

sigh

So good to know I’m not alone.

DrDeth is absolutely impervious to ANYTHING. Because he/she is absolutely incontrovertibly in the right on ANY subject.

Especially how to spell “enuf”. And “tho”.

If you think that’s all he’s being Pitted for, you must have never encountered him.

Heck, I’m beginning to think he may not even be a real doctor.

You are misunderstanding what people are saying about Gygax. His work reflects cultural racism. Like many people’s work. So it bears scrutiny and revision. Like many peoples work. That is all. It’s not a specific criticism of Gygax’s personality or character.

OK, that I agree with. Very reasonable and true.

A lot of those posts seem to be accusing him of being racist and he might have been, but his contributions to D&D don’t really prove it.

When we were having that protracted discussion in ATMB about trans issues and misogyny, I chimed in with other posters that some women had left the Dope due to sexism on the board. I know this because they PMed me about it. He demanded access to a “secret list” of 100 women who had left the board due to sexism - a thing nobody at any point claimed - and then when the mods shut down that tangent, he went out of his way to PM me that he didn’t believe me. That’s a sore spot for me because while my memory is not infallible, I strive to be honest in all my dealings.

I don’t typically write whole people off over single incidents, but I’ve been growing frustrated. He seems to have this mentality that if he doesn’t notice something, it doesn’t exist, and only sees what he wants to see - even though he’s missing out on a ton of experiences just by nature of his gender. Personal experience is highly subjective. I thought it was a problem with taking women seriously, but maybe it’s just a broader pattern of posting.

As I said over there, “Gary Gygax was racist” doesn’t mean that he originated in the elemental plane of racism, that he takes double damage from Banish White Supremacy spells, or anything like that. It means that, when he wrote about orcs in the way he did, that was racist. Gygax was racist when he did that.

Outside of the David Dukes and Adolf Hitlers of the world, there are few people who are irredeemably racist, for whom racism is their defining characteristic. But there are a lot of people who have been racist at certain times. Since we were discussing Gygax’s use of racist stereotypes in the depiction of fantasy creatures, that was the context in which I said he was racist.

I think that a lot of folks who spend a lot of time thinking about racism use the word “racist” in this way, and a lot of people who do not think much about racism use it in the “elemental plane of racism” way.

As for this thread, years ago I started a thread for another dumbshit user, and would transfer conversations to that thread when they became too stupid for the original forum. I think I’ll use this thread in this fashion going forward, and invite others to do the same: y’all are right that he stinks up a lot more threads than just the D&D one, it’s just I’m usually better at not engaging with him. Yeah, he doesn’t use the pit, but if the conversation moves here and he bows out, that’s on him, and might keep other threads less fuckin stupid.

…I’m so sorry he did this. :frowning: I get anxiety when someone PM’s me just to be nice. I would completely freak out if someone PM’d me to call me a liar.

Would he have been considered racist by the standards of 1970s Minnesota? No, probably not.

Are the standards of 1970s Minnesota racist by todays standards? Yeah, pretty much. Things were more racist back then in general, and Gygax wasn’t notably enlightened for his time.

Yes, I agree.

I happened to go to school that was around 37% African American, so probably less racist than average. But I wasn’t enlightened, my parents weren’t. Very few of my friends weren’t white by High School though it was different in lower grades.

Oddly, not separated by race but by nerd-dom. My friends that were black didn’t want to hang out with a nerd by high school. My nerd friends were OK with me. My grease monkey friends were much more accepting.

Oh, shit, I suffered from reverse racism. What do you know? I never thought about it before. Or kids grow apart as they get older and their interests change.

Whenever I get involved in conflict, I usually have an immediate panic response (thanks, Mom!) but then I realize it doesn’t matter that much. It was notable in that I rarely receive nasty PMs.

That thread is full of strawmen. The main argument being made is that D&D’s depiction of “evil races” has been one of the many many many many things which have contributed to America’s serious problem of institutional racism.

DrDeth was a dense motherfucker 20 years ago, and after my extended break from the boards, I return, and I find that he continues to be exactly the same dense motherfucker he was before.

Plus ça change, and all that.

He’s a moron (or perhaps I should say, “a mouth-breather”) who can’t spell or write properly.