Tapatalk wouldn’t let me edit: I said nitpicking because it’s a small part of your point, but I’d rather change that to clarifying. I believe it’s a significant difference.
I also wanted to specify that the poll was conducted March 2012: basically 2 years ago. Two years is definitely long enough for opinions to have shifted or changed, which is why it’s inaccurate to apply the poll results to today.
What’s evil are people like you. There is no such thing as abortion rights. It’s either safe and legal abortion or unsafe and illegal abortions. The later kills women so fuck you for thinking that’s okay. Anti-abortion laws did not stop my mom from getting an abortion in 1963 after she was raped. They would not stop me. They would not stop my daughters.
Pregnancy is an inherently unsafe and dangerous thing for women. We have the right of veto power over a fertilized egg and the right of autonomy over our own bodies. We are the innocent people here not an egg. Get the fuck over yourself and get over it.
zweisamkeit yes, that’s true. I doubt they’ve changed, but they might have.
Some people seem to have the idea, I’m not quite sure why, that women are more pro-choice than men. The numbers don’t bear that out with respect to abortion ‘rights’ in general, and I thought it was interesting that the numbers don’t seem to bear it out (from this one survey at least) with respect to the TVU laws. That was the point of my bringing it to your attention.
You have been misinformed.
Women are more pro-choice than men, and by a large margin:
[QUOTE=Gallup, 2012]
The same poll finds men identifying as pro-life over pro-choice by a 15-point margin, 53% vs. 38%. Women, on the other hand, are about evenly split at 46% pro-life and 44% pro-choice.
[/QUOTE]
FearItself That 2012 Gallup poll appears to be an outlier, that isn’t consistent with most other polls over the last decade, nor with previous Gallup polls. Here are some conflicting surveys:
“There are virtually no gender differences in opinions about abortion. Last November, about half of women (52%) and men (50%) said abortion should be legal in all or most cases; 42% of women and 44% of men said it should be illegal in all or most cases. These views have changed little in Pew Research Center surveys going back more than a decade. However, there is a sizable difference in women’s and men’s attitudes toward gay marriage. In an October 2011 survey, 53% of women favored allowing gays and lesbians to marry legally, while 38% were opposed. More men opposed than supported same-sex marriage (51% to 40%).”
“There are no major differences between mens’ and womens’ stands on the issue. 40% of men believe abortion should be generally available, and 37% of women think it should be. 20% of men think it should not be permitted, and slightly more women, 24%, agree.”
http://www.publicagendaarchives.org/charts/men-and-women-hold-similar-views-legality-abortion
Here’s a link discussing the survey from Gallup themselves, in 2011.
“Breaking down those numbers further, Gallup finds that pro-life view as seen across the board — with 60 percent of women and 61 percent of men saying they want all or almost all abortions illegal. Women actually take a stronger pro-life view than men with 24 percent of American women wanting all abortions made illegal and 36 percent wanting almost all illegal, compared with 19 percent of men who want to ban all abortions and 42 percent of men who want to prohibit almost all.”
Maybe the 2012 poll is indicative of a big change in abortion opinion, although I doubt it: we’ll see what future opinion surveys hold. I also know some folks who worked on Democratic campaigns in 2012 and have in-house data suggesting no real gender gap on abortion opinion, but I won’t discuss it further since it isn’t public domain.
I know. That’s the ultimate hell of the debate: it forces good people apart. It compels me to hold your morality in contempt…and you, mine.
It’s the ultimate “impasse” issue. No progress can be made. We simply have to fight.
But…forcing vaginal insertion against unwilling women is a pretty doggone low way to fight it. It’s counter-productive, too, for, while you might end up persuading one woman in 500 not to have an abortion, you politically alienate 475 women in 500 by this assault upon their rights. The pro-life side can’t make any progress in winning the hearts and minds of the voters in such a fashion.
The problem is you’re speaking of “women” in general, in total and in a group. Here are the numbers again:
Tot Rep Dem Ind Men Wom Wht Blk
Approve 41% 61% 27% 39% 38% 44% 42% 35%
Disapprove 52 31 67 56 56 49 51 57
DK/NA 7 9 6 5 7 7 7 8
zweisamkeit correctly points out that these numbers relate only to Virginian women, not women as a whole. But even that’s not the whole story.
As you can see, among people who approve of the ultrasound bill, 44% of women surveyed approved of the bill compared to 38% of the men surveyed.
However. Among people who disapprove of the bill 56% of the men surveyed disliked it compared to 49% of the women surveyed disliked it.
The number of women who disapproved of the ultrasound bill was greater than both the number of men and number women who approved of it. Therefore, you can not say that women approve of the bill more than men do, even if we skip over the part where you’re conflating Virginian women with women in general.
Regarding the support for abortion rights, the numbers I posted from the 2012 Quinnipac poll you cited are roughly similar to the sort of numbers we get from Gallup’s polls on abortion rights. Only 20% of the population, roughly, thinks abortion should be completely illegal. The other 80% thinks it should be legal at least in some circumstances, with the argument being over the nature of those circumstances. The anti-abortion crowd and Gallup themselves like to lump the people who think it should be rare circumstances in with the 20-ish percent who think it should be totally illegal. That’s they only way they can sell the idea that the country’s divided on abortion.
Here are those numbers again too, from the poll that you cited (and I linked):
Tot Rep Dem Ind Men Wom Wht Blk
Legal all cases 21% 9% 36% 20% 18% 24% 19% 28%
Legal most cases 36 28 36 42 40 33 37 34
Illegal most cases 23 36 16 20 23 23 23 19
Illegal all cases 12 19 6 10 11 14 13 12
DK/NA 7 8 5 8 8 6 8 7
And here are the numbers from the most recent Quinnipiac poll, form Ocotober 4, 2013, specifically comparing the opinions of American Catholics to Americans in general.
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/search-releases/search-results/release-detail?ReleaseID=1961&What=&strArea=;&strTime=12
They found that American Catholic opinion on abortion is roughly the same as Americans in general: only about 20 percent want it to be illegal in all cases, the other 80-ish% want it to be legal.
ALL ADULTS..........................................
ATTEND SRVCS AGE..............
Tot Men Wom Weekly Less 18-49 50-64 65+
Legal all cases 19% 17% 22% 11% 24% 22% 19% 14%
Legal most cases 34 36 32 22 41 35 35 31
Illegal most cases 23 24 22 33 18 22 24 26
Illegal all cases 16 14 18 26 11 17 13 17
DK/NA 7 8 6 8 6 4 9 11
[Moderating]
LavenderBlue, saying “fuck you” to other posters is a violation of the pits language rules. Please avoid this in the future.
No warning issued.
[/Moderating]
PoliticsUSA (not an unbiased source, certainly) thinks this could spell the end of Walker’s governorship. I dunno about that, but it could make this a much more interesting election.
Random cavity searches of people using public highways aren’t “medically harmful”, either.
Using a public highway doesn’t, necessarily, involve killing a baby.
The mandatory ultrasounds have nothing to do with preventing abortions, as demonstrated by an earlier cite (a study in which it was shown that ultrasounds did pretty much nothing to change the minds of pregnant women who were planning to abort). All it does is waste money, time, energy, and mandate procedures that, in many cases, neither women nor their doctors feel are necessary.
Yeah, if your stance is that babies are being killed, why waste time with rationalizations about medical necessity and what’s “medically harmful”?
Just admit “babies being killed” is the start and end of your position and spare us your attempts to use reason and argument.
You’re forgetting that a fetus isn’t meaningfully a baby, you silly twat.
You take the box of cake mix, empty it into the bowl, add the egg and milk, stir…that’s a cake.
Level the land next to a river, truck in a shitload of I-beams, rivets and welders…that’s a bridge.
When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that’s a moray. But I digress.
No it’s not, it’s a bowl of cake mix. It’s not a cake until you’ve baked it and it’s not still soggy in the middle.
Put your hand in a crack and you don’t get it back, that’s a moray. They’re nasty buggers.