If someone told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?
Rational does not mean blindly following the requests of others against all reason. It’s courteous, and perhaps wise, to follow the dictates of the hotel, but not necessarily rational. It’s not entirely obtuse to reason that if you’ve requested a smoking room, and all the hotel can give you is non-smoking, then they accept that you might smoke anyway. Unless they are very specific that you take it outside, under certain circumstances they may accept the risk of someone lighting up.
In fact, this has been my experience up until just a few years ago.
I said that I’ve recently stayed in not one hotel that had any smoking rooms, but I remembered one that did. It had two smoking rooms. We stayed in one, Domestic Violence Couple stayed in the other. After I called 911 on DVC, we expressed concern about sharing a wall with them. The hotel upgraded us to a better room, which was non-smoking. They provided us with an ashtray. Was it irrational that we used it?
Because the way you live your life makes things smell bad and triggers allegeries in some people and annoys the shit out of a lot of the rest, yet you get bent out of shape when someone calls you on being a douche about it.
That…that was the silliest comparison I’ve ever heard. Have you been talking to my mother again? (“Diosa, I don’t care if everyone else has their ear pierced. If everyone jumped of a bridge, would you?”)
If someone asked me to take my shoes off upon entering their house, I would. If someone asked me not to smoke in their house, I would. If someone asked me not to wear perfume when I came over, because it makes them wheeze- I would. It is rational to be courteous.
It was not irratinal for you to use the ashtray the gave you, as- by giving it to you- they gave you permission to smoke. Next time you get a non smoking room, ask if it is ok that you smoke in there. If they say yes- go to town. I don’t think that they should assume people WILL smoking in their non smoking rooms. Most people are considerate of the rules.
Still, if they allow a smoker to smoke in a non smoking room (ha! say that three times fast) they are fucking up a perfectly good room by allowing a patron to stink it up. There is a reason smoking rooms are seperate- they stink like ass.
I’ve never seen a non-smoking room that wasn’t clearly marked as such. Usually with a sign on the door. What more clue do you need that you are NOT supposed to smoke in it, regardless of your initial request for a smoking room? Stop stinking up the non-smoking rooms please.
Prohibition is expensive to enforce and doesn’t work. Besides, that’s not in the game plan.
The idea is to squeeze as much tax revenue as possible from your helpless addicted selves, while enjoying the money saved on long-term care thanks to your premature die-off. The problem of generating new smokers has been solved - we’ll run incessant preachy, offensive public health ads designed to get young people to take up smoking as part of a rebellion against authority.
It’s sheer sinister manipulative genius. Bwa-ha-ha-ha!!!
So when calm kiwi is on her break time at work, huddled under a tree on a footpath far away from the door indulging her legal habit, it’s okay for coworkers to cast withering glances and make disparaging remarks? Who’s being a douche again?
No, the way I live my life is to do what I want while respecting the rights of others. When I act as respectfully as is reasonable, and people still call me a douche, then yeah, I’m going to get bent out of shape. Problem with that?
tdn how on earth is it respectful to smoke in a CLEARLY marked non smoking room? (The exception of course being when you were given permission by the establishment to smoke).
Yes, I was being a bit schoolmarmish with that response. I did it for effect.
But you’re the one who claimed that doing what people told you was the same as being rational. Are you confusing that with being respectful?
I get the feeling that you all think I purposely go into non-smoking rooms and light up while saying “Mwa ha ha, I’ll show them!” I don’t. Except for the example cited above, I haven’t smoked in a non-smoking room in years. I do respect the rules, although sometimes grudgingly.
But let’s look at another example from 8 years ago:
A friend called a hotel a couple months in advance to make a reservation. She made sure to request a smoking room. She made it very clear, in no uncertain terms, that there would be several heavy smokers staying there. When she checked in, they had given her room away. But they had another one available. It was non-smoking, and was smaller and not as nice. But they still charged her over $300 per night for it. So–smoke or no smoke?
Uh no smoke. That big sign, the one that says, “NO SMOKING”-- guess what it means? I admit that is a crappy situation, but she still shouldn’t have smoked in the room if she wasn’t given permission. Is it that big of a deal to step on the balcony? If smoking in room was that big of a deal, switch hotels? I don’t know every detail of the situation, but there are a few reasonable answers (note that I think that was an uber douche thing of the hotel to do, crappy mistakes are made though). If I were her, I would have raised hell-- that’s just shitty service on the hotel’s part. If they wouldn’t have discounted my room, I probably would have taken my business elsewhere- not staged a stinky ass protest that destroys their room.
For example, everytime I have gotten a smoking room I speak to a manager. First they bring in that thing (don’t know the exact name) that slightly desmokes the room. Then housekeeping comes up and does their air freshening thing (I’ve even had a manager go out and buy a big fat bottle of Fabreeze…they offered, I didn’t request this.). Then I get a discount on my room. If a hotel refused to take any of the mentioned steps, I’d take my business elsewhere.
And no, I’m sorry if my point came across wrong: I did not mean that being rational is doing what you are told. I mean that being rational involves doing what is ASKED of you. It’s a courtesy thing and I believe being rational and being courteous go hand in hand most of the time.
No, but when people like tdn thinks they’re a better judge of where smoking’s allowed than the owners/managers of the establishment he’s in, I have no sympathy for him if people bitch him out for it.
And a nice little picture you painted there, the poor, victimized smokers, banned to the recesses of the premises because of the meany-head non-smokers. “If only I weren’t born with this horrible condition,” s/he wails. Oh wait…
Let me provide a few more details. Number one, there was no balcony. Number two, in this town, in the Summer, you don’t just switch hotels. They’re all booked full. That’s why you call in advance. We had gone to five hotels asking for a reservation before we found one that had anything available. And that was a month in advance.
Where do you get that it was a protest? Staged? Gah? There were smokers who wanted to smoke. They paid for a smoking room. They decided to smoke. (Although I should point out, they huddled in the bathroom and opened a window.)
But anyway:
So the hotel management could take steps to freshen a room? Just above you said that smoking destroys the room. So which is it?
And it sounds like hotel management took big steps to make sure you were happy. Good, that’s what they should do. Should they not do the same for smokers?
Well I’m sorry that management screwed up, but you were in a NON SMOKING ROOM right? Right? You did write that, correct? What does non smoking mean to you? Don’t pretend your ONLY option was to soil their room.
And yes, in my experience the hotel staff will try to destink the room. Guess what? It only helps for a little bit and you can still smell smoke. The staff attempted to make my stay more comfortable and I thanked them for that, but- even after all their work- my room still smells like ass.
Since you are here to pick on everyone’s reading comprehension, let me adress this part of your post:
Of course they should. When did I say otherwise? But you/your friends/ Jesus himself smoking in the room that is clearly labled to be smoke free is just RUDE. Perhaps the management should have told your friend it was ok to smoke in the room or offered some alternative. If they didn’t, it was up to your friend to call them on it. As I said, crappy service is crappy service and it is up to the comsumer to call a business on that.
In my experience, smoking rooms are no more expensive than non smoking rooms. So they paid for a room and their preference was one they could smoke in. Why is it a protest? “Hmm, we’re in a non smoking room, but damnit! I paid for a smoking room! I’m going to smoke in here anyway, even though I know I shouldn’t!”
Honestly, you see nothing wrong with smoking in a clearly labled non smoking room? If you see nothing wrong, why did you stop doing it yourself?
As well as having an interesting interpretation of rationality, you seem to have an interesting interpretation of what a protest isn’t. Try “contract” instead.
The world isn’t black and white. Whether to smoke or not depends on more factors than whether a sign is on the door. I’ve stayed in places where the owners were willing to turn a blind eye (and nose) because they felt my continued business was worth it. I’ve stayed in places where there’s a sign on the door and yet there was an ashtray in the room. I’ve stayed in places where the owner said “just open a window.” Clearly, the rule was more of a suggestion than a divine mandate from God.
Taking all of these things into account, and making a decision based on all factors–that’s my definition of rationality.
Agreed, if tdn were actually being that way, I wouldn’t have any sympathy either.
The topic was whether or not smokers as a group have become more considerate, not are there still inconsiderate idiots who smoke. I agree with the OP, I think there’ve been real cultural changes that benefit everyone. You’d never see a doctor smoking in an exam room now or see non-smokers offering ashtrays to visiting smokers in their homes, yet those things used to be common.
We can applaud the progress that’s happened without demonizing anyone, well, most of us can anyway.
Not my picture, it’s the situation described in post 52. I doubt calm kiwi was demonstrating that she felt victimized so much as she was demonstrating that there are assholes on both sides. You can sit in your nice warm office and chuckle at the stupidity of the smokers going out into a blizzard on their lunchbreak for a smoke, have a blast. It doesn’t behoove you to point and cackle, that’s all.
Courtesy goes a long way, is it more effective for zenith to thank people for being more considerate or for you to castigate people for having the habit?
(“Diosa, I don’t care if everyone else has their ear pierced. If everyone jumped of a bridge, would you?”)