Of course it is; science is based on rationality and facts, and both of those are things religion by definition rejects.
For the purposes of whether or not they should be taken seriously, yes they are. Imaginary is imaginary.
There’s nothing to think about seriously. Because it’s imaginary. There’s no there there.
Because particles are actually there to be studied? Because particle physics isn’t wholly based on lies? There’s no actual objective facts for me to “gather and categorize”.
Do I need to study anti-Semitic conspiracy theories too before rejecting them as nonsense? Ufology? Breatharianism?
There’s no evidence for me to study, and I’m not particularly interested in studying a self contradictory collection of lies, which is all religion is.
That’s silly. Is someone who fights back against an attacker “unwilling to live up to their beliefs” that they don’t want to be attacked because they dare to defend themselves? How very convenient; according to you, either he’s supposed to sit there passively and take whatever the believers choose to dish out, or he’s a hypocrite. Funny how that always works out for believers; the “right” decision according to them is always “let us stomp on you or you are oppressing us.”
As a Fairy Godfather and minor godling, I’m offended by the claims that I don’t exist or that I’m a pack of lies.
Asshole Humans. The ones I call “The Many” were right. Humans are too arrogant for their own good. A pack of 14 year old kids hitting puberty as a race and thinking they know everything.
Analogy fail. Taking no action (IE leaving people the alone and minding your own fucking business wrt what they believe and what you believe) is not equivalent to punching someone in the face.
Der Trihs, oh really? So no religious person can believe in evolution, the Big Bang, etc? They’re all creationists, Biblical literalists?
You’re so eager to believe the worst of people, just so full of malice, that you can’t even see the people around you here.
I don’t want anyone to “shut up and be a good little atheist.” The reason I’ve told you to “shut up?” Because you’re a misogynistic, hateful bigotted, moronic little shit. You’re so prepared to dish it out, but then when it comes back to you, you whine and say, “well they started it!”
I see. So you reject out of hand the classification of literature into mystery, science fiction, poetry, et cetera, because anything fictional is (1) interchangeable and (2) not worth understanding. And of course your position about intellectual constructs means you dismiss philosophy and other abstract thought.
I suspect that it’s only religion that offends you, because you believe it pretends to be real while literature is only art reflecting reality and philosophy an intellectual endeavor based on real issues. In only words, religion isn’t just incorrect, but a lie. That position is not logically defensible when the whole of religion is understood within its cultural context. Certainly there are individuals and institutions who have hypocritically used religion to grab power and / or oppress people, but that’s not the whole picture. Calling people’s gods names like “fairy” and “sky pixie” is frankly childish (except in jest—then it’s kind of funny).
No, I didn’t say that or anything close to it, as I’m sure you know. You are just trying to distort what I’m saying to cover the obvious self serving nature of your position.
:rolleyes: Not worth taking seriously. Do I need to be a Tolkien expert before I can dismiss The Lord of the Rings as fictional?
If the philosophy in question is based on lies, then of course I do. Unlike religion however it is possible for philosophy to be rational, and even for it to be correct by something other than blind luck since it isn’t faith based.
Religion asserts that fantasies are true in contradiction to the actual facts; that makes it an error, lie or delusion and any “larger cultural context” is utterly irrelevant. And I also despise religion because it is a force for evil in the the world; even if it there were gods, I’d still oppose it. Religion corrupts morally as well as intellectually.
No, more often they aren’t being hypocritical at all when they do that. Typically it’s the people who do good in the name of religion that are being hypocrites. Torturing people who don’t profess the “right” faith, killing unbelievers, conversion by the sword; none of those are hypocritical when they are the clear logical outcome of a religion, or outright called for by it. Evil, but not hypocritical.
Der Trihs, I’ll try one more time. Religion is the name of a cultural system which exists and is therefore not fictional. Part of the system includes fictional beliefs, which are purported to be true.* Since literally billions of humans engage in these systems, it behooves you to take them seriously, even if you do not share the beliefs.
To go back to literature, you don’t need to be a Tolkien expert to “dismiss” (your word) Lord of the Rings as fictional. You would be a fool, however, if you thought that classifying it as fictional was the extent of the attention it deserved.
*This “true” is often a get-to-the-heart-of-things “deep” truth rather than a literal / factual one, which is one way that believers can be religious and still accept the principles and finding of science, but I expect that distinction is beyond you.
My position is self-serving only in that I don’t think anyone should be telling anyone else how to live their life or what to believe. I don’t want you to hear you talking about how stupid theists are for following a bearded man who lives in the clouds any more than I want to hear my fundamentalist father telling my atheistic best friend that he’s going to Hell because he won’t subscribe to my dad’s specific interpretation of the Bible.
I welcome earnest dialog that doesn’t degenerate into insults and name calling, such as the one that helped me get over my cognitive dissonance regarding creationism early in my posting career here, but you have shown over and over again that you are not capable of such a discussion. I have yet to see you add anything of substance to any of those threads, because you repeat the same tired crap every single time (“theists are dumb derp derp”). You’re not interested in changing people’s minds, or else you’d modify your approach as many other people on this board have suggested to you multiple times over the years.
In short, you are utterly useless as a poster in Great Debates in general and religious threads in particular.
I’m not. Nothing I said remotely resembled what you claimed I said, as I’m sure you know. You, not I am the liar - not that I expect honesty out of someone willing to defend religion. Doing so by definition shows a disrespect for facts.
Very noble sounding; except that as I’m sure you know quite well the believers aren’t going to stop pushing their nonsense. So your exhortations towards atheists in reality are just a demand they sit there and take it.
That is because I’m arguing against the exact same “tired crap” from theists; they never produce anything new. They are wrong now for the same reasons they were wrong a century ago.
That’s just twisting words. Lord of the Rings is fictional. Star Wars is fictional. Religion is fictional. You are just squirming to find a way you can classify religion as something not fictional.
I take them seriously as a danger. That doesn’t mean they need to be taken seriously in any other way.
Don’t be ridiculous. I dismiss religion because it is fictional, because its whole claim to importance is that it supposedly isn’t.
Hardly, it’s called compartmentalization and making up nonsense to defend nonsense. They make up a special nonexistent category of “deep truth” so they can pretend that their baseless delusions are worthy of being taken seriously despite being contradicted by actual truth. And they do so in order to function in a world that contradicts pretty much everything they believe.
If you were to take off your “OMG religion thread THEISTS ARE EVIL” blinders and read for comprehension, you’ll notice that I have not once defended religion in this thread.
You sure love your hasty generalizations, doncha?
I suppose that if you haven’t been able to read for comprehension by now, then there’s no point in trying to reexplain it to you. You truly are a lost cause.
I’m reminded of the Dane Cook bit where he says “god bless you” to a man who has just sneezed. The man turns to him and says “hmph, I’m an atheist”. To which Dane Cook replies “So I’m all like bro, I mean dude, right? Like, BROOOODUDE!!! COOKIES!!!” While making exaggerated gestures.
Bullshit. No one’s saying you shouldn’t stick up for yourself if someone’s being obnoxious.
HOWEVER, if someone else is minding their own business, and you know they’re a theist, don’t turn around and push YOUR beliefs or non-beliefs or whatever at them.
If someone’s not bothering you, if they’re NOT witnessing at, or harassing you, then shut the fuck up. Quit with your generalizations – you’ve met quite a number of people here who are theists who AREN’T fundies, but apparently, we don’t count.
You’re a bitter, hateful shitbag, who stereotypes everyone who doesn’t think like you, and then turns around and calls everyone else intolerant. Apparently, you must not own a mirror.
Yeah well said, I find some atheists are ignorant and when a religious person states that they believe in science they get howled down as picking and choosing what parts you believe in.
You believe what you want, just don’t force it down my throat. Same goes for all the loopy fundys. Atheists are sometimes guilty of forgetting what the problem with religion is, it is mans’ quest for power. Rally against the church, I will even help but respect is two way.
I have a view on my life, it is time for people to respect that.