I pit my father, the crazy asshole

My father is one of those hoarders. Our house was always a total mess because of all of his junk, especially once my mother got sick and couldn’t keep on top of it. When I moved in with my current husband, it was a revalation. I could start cleaning things and actually finish in my lifetime! I could have people over to my house without it being a total embarrasment!

But my husband had a very large and expensive house that he had struggled to hold onto during his divorce. His nasty, rich ex-wife and ex-mother-in-law pulled some kind of nasty legal trick during the divorce and managed to put a $72K second mortgage on the house. (The multi-millionaire mother-in-law had put a big down payment the house, but said the money was a gift and never had to be repaid… oh, but of course she wanted to make it look like a loan to the IRS, just for tax purposes, they were NEVER going to have to pay it back… well, guess what. Ex-wife sluts around on him, he can’t take it anymore and files for divorce, and so ex-wife and millionaire monster-in-law use it to ruin him financially. Which leads me to the opinion that the majority of rich people really fucking suck and are actively, purposefully, evil.)

My husband had gotten a very high interest mortgage in order to get the house and had very high payments. He had planned to scrimp and save and bite the bullet for a year or so and then refinance to something more reasonable. But of course, with that second mortgage thing on there, there was no way he was going to get refinanced. When my father retired (after my mother died), he asked him to move into our empty basment because he thought that maybe with the extra rent we could manage to hold on to the house. I thought it was a bad idea. My aunt (my father’s sister) thought it was a bad idea. He did it anyway, and brought along my shiftless brother.

My brother sponged off of us for a year until my husband got him a job. We lost the house anyway. We all moved to a rental house on the other side of the city, which wasn’t too bad, until the asshole landlord, who had assured us we were his favorite tenants ever, and he would love to rent to us for years, suddenly decided he had to sell the house and split it with his wife in his divorce.

My husband tried to convince my father and brother to move on their own, so that my husband and I and the kids could get an apartment. My father said there was no way he could manage to get a place on his own. We moved again, and a wealthy friend and co-worker of my husband’s helped us with a lease-purchase on a house. So we took the old crazy man, his five U-hauls full of useless junk (and I mean REALLY useless–old issues of Computer Shopper from 1985, empty beer bottles, paperback books that had gotten wet and then gotten moldy), and my shiftless brother.

They were giving us rent, and because we had to get a five bedroom house to be able to fit them, we couldn’t afford it without that rent. We also spent a whole lot of money we didn’t have on U-hauling several truckloads of his shit over here. My husband did not want all of my father’s crap to take over our house like it did my house growing up, so he tried to convince him to throw it away. My father completely refused. We had the mess confined to his room at this point, but we didn’t want it expanding to the rest of the house, and we were worried that it was a fire and health hazard, so my husband would try to surreptitiously throw away the garbage. And this wasn’t anything that had any type of use, nothing that would reasonably have sentimental value like pictures.

My father would go through the garbage and take things out that my husband had thrown away. My father apparently got mad that we were throwing away his precious empty beer bottles, and sneakily made plans for him and my brother to move to a trailer park. We wouldn’t have known about it beforehand at all, except my father left the lease out on top of the refrigerator in the garage, and it was right at my eye level when I went out into the garage to go to the car. I looked at it and discovered that they had put money down on this trailer. The plan, apparently, was that we wouldn’t know until the day they moved out.

This was a few weeks ago, and they are moving out today. If we had had a few months to get things in order, we might have been fine. But as it is, we are screwed. He screwed over me, my husband and his grandsons just to assure that no one throws away his useless garbage. There is no way to get him help for this-- he refuses to discuss it, and apparently thinks this is perfectly normal behavior. I’m just sick of him at this point. I don’t really want to see him once him and his truckloads of shit are out of here. He screwed us over, now he is on his own. Any troubles he might have in the future, I don’t want to hear about it. You made it not my problem anymore. Get out of my life, you crazy old asshole.

Damn that sucks. Have you thought about boarders, maybe a college kid or two?

Um, hi, crazy packrat here.

I can understand how your father feels, actually. I have problems throwing away an old grocery receipt because, hey, I might be able to write a phone number or a useful URL on the back of it.

But I do periodically bite the bullet and clean out. I throw away a lot of old junk. I just ask myself, “have I used this in the last year? will I use in in the next year?” If the answer to both questions is “no”, it goes. Last time Mom and I moved, I cleaned out and threw away a whole bunch of crap before moving, then while we were unpacking, I found even more crap that I didn’t really need and threw it out too. About two months ago, mom leaned on me until I threw out yet another batch of crap.

I can actually see my desk, now. It’s amazing.

But really, five U-Hauls just for the junk? That man needs professional help.

My next thread is probably going to be “How do I find a non-psycho housemate?” We’ve already sold some stuff (one of the TV’s, an entertainment center, a computer) to try and be able to buy things we will need over the next month (formula, medication, gas to get to work, etc.) We’ve got a freezer full of food, and I’m going to be stretching it as far as humanly possible. Still, if we had known a few months ago, we could have done a few things differently and we’d be in a lot better shape. The landlord has reduced the rent temporarily-- however, this means that no money is going into our down payment/house repair fund. My husband doesn’t want to move, but I think our best bet at this point is to help our landlord fix the place up so he can sell it at a profit (he bought it with the intention that we would buy it from him in five years or so, which seemed doable at the time, but is getting more unlikely now) and move into an apartment. An apartment would be crowded on weekends when my husband’s daughters are here, but even a very nice, spacious apartment with lots of amenities is a lot less that what we are paying now.

Seems to me that all your problems are someone else’s fault.

You might want to look into that.

Damn, that sucks. Have you thought about counseling to figure out why you let people run roughshod over you and goad you into overextending yourselves? Or anger management to determine why you think everyone (including your last landlord, who had to sell his property during divorce proceedings) is an asshole? No silly smilies here. I’m dead serious.

Minnie, hon, seriously…why did you even let him bring all of his junk into your house in the first place? YOU were the landlord. YOU could very well have told him he could move in but the tattered remnants of his life which he insisted on metaphorically carrying around on his back like some kind of existential bag lady was not coming in the front door.

Looking at it objectively, it’s YOUR fault that you have this little problem right now, regardless of whether your dad is an asshole, crazy, a crazy asshole, or none of the above. A little bit of “putting your foot down” in the beginning could have made a whole lot of difference in the end result.

And how old is your brother? And was he paying his own rent or was your father paying for both?

I’m sorry, but the landlord WAS an asshole. We knew he was getting a divorce when we moved in, but he assured us that he would definetely NOT lose the house in the divorce and that we would definitely be able to finish out the 1 year lease we signed. Also, when he decided to sell the house, he brought over a real estate agent and lied to us and told us she was an appraiser and that he was just refinancing, definitely NOT selling the house. In those words-- “Don’t worry, I’m NOT selling the house.” He is an asshole, period.

Things happen during divorce that make it impossible to keep your property no matter how much you want to. Just ask your husband.

I didn’t want him or his junk in the house at all. My husband thought it was the right thing to do-- he thought they couldn’t do it on their own. Guess it just goes to show that trying to help people just gets you fucked in the end.

And what things happened that forced him to lie to us that he wasn’t selling the house when he knew he was?

Hubby here: Some things that may not have been clear. My dear wife is darn tootin mad and there is a lot that went on that she missed. :smack:

On the issue of moving father:
Well, we did throw away 90% of his stuff when he moved in. In fact it took 5 construction dumpster fulls (the big ones) and 150 55 gallon trash bags to throw that out. Unbeknownst to me, after he moved in I thought that was it, it turns out he had been hoarding even more under the house and when we moved he hid it under the new house we moved into. (he did this while we were at work). At any rate the volume of this didn’t come out until the second move. I wish this were exagerating, and I should have known that throwing out a hoarders stuff is like declaring war. There is a picture that may help illustrate what we are talking about here: http://www.ocfoundation.org/1005/ however, this is tame, fathers stuff goes to the ceiling, I really should take a picture. :rolleyes:

New Landlord after I lost my house:
Well what can I say. He told us he was trying to refinance when the gal came by to take pictures of the house. Now I’ve been through refinancing and never had to let someone inside the house to take pictures. When I called him on this he outwardly lied and said “no, I would never sell the house out from under you” Well, a week later a for sale sign shows up in front of the house with no warning. Not very nice but hey… what we needed to do was find someplace else to live.
Sponge brother: He lived off us for a year not paying any rent or having a job. Once he had a job he tried to live rent free. That didn’t fly well with me. We had a larger share of the bills and he needed to help (no one lives for free, not at 28), so I talked to him about it and he did the right thing. However, he has a nasty temper when it comes to my wife so that did cause some tension. :frowning:

As far as father not telling us what was going on, I think he knew we would be angry. When we went into this house I asked many times if he was sure this was what he wanted. He agreed. Never once did we quarrel until recently when he started padlocking everything (my back gate, my front gate, my storage shed). And then the only words were mine. “This is my house and I don’t want everything padlocked!”

When we discovered the betrayal I talked to father about it, he just happened to have all his guns out and next to him that night ( I had never seen them before that day, and haven’t seen them since), probably to intimidate us. Well, despite his lack of honor we have both been nothing but cordial and helpful. We have done our best to act in an honorable way. Getting angry would solve nothing.

I think fear drives this man, fear of needing something like an empty beer bottle some day (I counted 50 empty cases of beer), or that candy wrapper, or odd auto part for that 1973 chevy he abandoned before moving in with us, or confrontation. Not sure what he thought I was going to do, I just asked him to tell us the truth and not lie any more about this. What comes into play here is after I asked this he promised the september rent. Well we thought “great, lets stock up on some food and get our son some clothes for school” 2 days later he tells me he lied about the september rent and would not be willing to give it to us.

No, we are not bad people, but we won’t tolerate a mess of this magnitude and sadly it has bitten us. Don’t think badly of Minnie, we have just had some very bad circumstances these last few years and its enough to make many give up all hope.

Brother, can you spare a dime?

  1. Nobody made you keep the house from the first marriage. You could have handed it over - however much that sucks - and been home free.

  2. Nobody made you let your father and brother come live with you. They are grown-ups. So are you. If they forced there way in, you could have called the police to remove them. Instead, you chose to let them in and let them stay.

  3. You chose to purchase a house outside of your means. No one made you.

  4. You chose to let your father and brother move in with you to the new house.

I can pretty much guarantee that until you take responsibility for your choices, your life is going to continue to be shit. You will also find, should you ever choose to take responsibility for your choices, that the world is a great deal more sympathetic to those who admit “wow, I really screwed up on that” as compared to those who say “it’s all _____'s fault. They’re assholes.”

Here’s hoping you pull it off.

<b>Minnie,</b> I’m so sorry you have to deal with this. My brother (only 25) is a hoarder-in-training. I’m hoping he’ll grow out of it, but I’m so afraid he’ll end up like your father. It’s not right that you’ve ended up in a bad situation because you tried to do something nice (but I believe that if you treat people right, it comes back to you in the end).


Warning, anecdote to follow.

My brother and his girlfriend, aged 26 and 27, respectively, have been living with my mom pretty much constantly since they got together 7ish years ago. They’ve moved out 2 or 3 times, once into an apartment they had for about 6 months, and once into a house they had for about 4 months. They stayed with various other people once or twice, but they always come back. Every single time they leave, my mom says they’re never coming back. They don’t hold jobs, they don’t pay rent or contribute to household expenses, they argue all the damn time, and my brother is a total prick to my mom.

Inevitably they come back. Now they have two kids, a boy and a girl, ages 2.75ish and 16 months. I talk to my mom on the phone and I visit her quite often and she’s constantly bitching about these two and how she wants 'em out and blahblahblah. And, “Oh, they will NOT come back this time”, and on and on. It’s her own fault. I told her years ago to knock it off, quit borrowing them money for rent, stop letting them come back, stop enabling them. I feel little sympathy for her in this situation.
I’m glad you got your father and your brother out. Sure, it pisses you off that they skipped out on you, but you’ll surely be better off in the end. You do have blame in this, both of you, and that doesn’t make you bad people. But you will have to accept that. I wish you luck, though.

Hubby here again:

  1. I got what was more important than money or the house, equal time with my kids, that was the only reason for keeping the house at the time. It’s now a fair 50/50 split between ex and I. Had I not kept the house, she could have and would have me seeing my kids 2 weekends a month. I paid ex 70% of the value of the house, she turned around, said I GAVE her that money, that the the money from mom was a loan and she used what I gave her to pay off HER half. Stuck me with the rest. Not fair, don’t care, I see my kids more than most divorced dads, that is what is more important to me. Minnie moved in after all this, not her fault… Mine, but I did the right thing and can live with myself

  2. I felt bad for him and his predicament. It was the right thing to do, they had not shown any unkindness or act of dishonor at the time.

  3. He said he and his son had nowhere else to go. It was the right thing to do. Would you turn away YOUR family???

  4. yep! I can live with myself over this, it was the right thing to do.

OH NO, you are right. I tend to live in a world of rose colored glasses where I believe the best in people. I refuse to take these glasses off, otherwise I’ll become bitter to the world and no longer have what I hold dear. There is hope for humanity and not EVERYONE is out for themselves. I just refuse to beleive that. But my soft spot is what got us burned. This is all MY fault and trust me, I am the one Minnie is probably most angry with. That still doesn’t mean the way these gentlemen have behaved is right. I did right by them against my better judgement and advice of even his own family. My fault, you are right. And I can look at myself in the mirror and know I am a good person and did the right things. But I don’t have to put up with this again. Father is no longer welcome in our lives. He needs to see there are consequences for his actions. It is the right thing to do.

I pulled it off, I did the right thing. Even though I got burnt.
Oh hey! why are you a teacher. You should have been a psychology major :wink:

The ones known to be mentally ill? Hell, yes. Already have done.

Legal eagles correct me if I’m wrong, but if you have a fixed term lease, your landlord cannot kick you out when they sell, the new owner becomes your new landlord. That lease is a legally binding agreement, it doesn’t just vanish when the guy decides to sell the property.

Obviously, YMMV, void where prohibited, and hire a lawyer 'cause I ain’t one.