Nope.
In fine dining - absolutely.
College joint, repeat offender, causing problems - Nope.
I’m not sure how I gave that impression so let me clarify things. I would say the opposite is the case. Repeat customers or regulars tend to
be average to much better than average tippers. Of course, part of the problem here is defining what is a lousy tip. To some people I know in this business, anything less than 20% is a bad tip. Personally, I would say that anyone who leaves at least 15% on the subtotal before tax is an average tipper. I realize that wouldn’t be a popular position among servers, but I don’t really think it is fair to expect a customer to tip on tax.
This is a different issue if I am understanding you correctly. Is the person known to be a poor tipper being given poor or substandard service? That would be a problem for me and for most restaurant managers and owners I know. I would also add, in my experience making those kind of assumptions about your customers often doesn’t work out like you might think. Every restaurant patron should be given the best service possible regardless of any such guess work on the part of the server. The money they are spending is just as good as the other customers. As far as the tip is concerned, when you choose to work for tips you are basically taking a gamble every shift you work. There is no guarantee you will make great tips on every table but like I said previously, overall it all balances out.
I’m not sure what you mean by a “college joint” or what type of problems you are referring to them causing. IMHO it is always unprofessional to confront a customer about a tip. Tips are not guaranteed. I know that sucks but that is the nature of the restaurant business.
That was my experience, too, when i worked as a waiter.
I agree with all of this.
I agree that guesswork about who might or might not be a good tipper is pointless and often plain wrong. If you’ve never seen the person before, you should make no assumptions. And i’m not talking about someone who gives bad tips for poor service; i’m talking about people who give bad tips for good service.
I worked in one place where there were a few regulars (only a very few) who, even with the best service, tipped very poorly. And this wasn’t just with one particular waiter; these were customers who were known by every worker in the place as poor tippers.
If we were busy, and everyone was getting slammed, and any of those customers were in the restaurant, they would get served slowest. And none of us had any problem with this; nor did the manager, for that matter, because these few people seemed to keep coming back despite their poor tips and despite the fact that they sometimes received slow service.
Now, we never dragged our heels out of spite. If we weren’t extra busy, then we gave even these notoriously poor tippers our best service. But on those occasions when we were so busy that something had to give, it was the habitual poor tippers that suffered first.
Well, I’m a reasonable enough person to agree this is probably not all that uncommon given the situation. And, I probably was guilty of it when I was a server too.
Just curious whether you would apply this in a situation I was in about ten years ago.
I was staying in a hotel in Montreal, and the table de hote dinner was included with my stay. We ordered (nonalcoholic) drinks with dinner, which cost only a few bucks. The service was stellar, and we thanked our waiter for making our evening so enjoyable. When the check came, it had a line for tip amount, but no “total” line. I filled in a tip of about 22% on the total value of the meal and drinks, so the tip was a bit larger than the total (since we had already paid for the meal as part of the accommodations). After we left the restaurant and were waiting for an elevator back to our room, the waiter came hustling out of the restaurant and grabbed us to ask about the tip. Apparently the policy was that if the amount on the “tip” line was larger than the “total” line, it was assumed that the customer had written total+tip on that line. If this policy were enforced on my check, the server would have received a seriously inadequate tip. When the waiter explained this to me, I hand-wrote a “total” line at the bottom of the receipt to clarify that I had indeed intended the tip to be larger than the bill for the meal.
Do you think the waiter was out of line? I was very glad that he caught me and let me know, since I definitely didn’t want to undertip him - quite the contrary.
If I am understanding the situation correctly ENugent the server was asking you to clarify what you intended because there was basically a math problem of some sort. It also seems that he handled the situation in a professional way w/o making you feel uncomfortable. He wasn’t confrontational or accusing you of leaving a bad tip. That seems to be a different situation than described in the OP.
The way you described it, the waiter was not out of line.
I have seen situations like this happen where the customer was distracted or in a hurry and failed to put down a tip and total, in some cases forgetting to even sign the charge slip. The server has gone back and simply said “I’m sorry but could you please total the charge for me?” That is very different than saying “What’s the problem? You left me a rotten tip.”
Well, he asked me (in a thick Quebecois accent), “Did you mean leave $2 tip?” (I don’t remember what the number was, but it was small.) If I had meant to leave a small tip, it probably would have made me feel uncomfortable, especially when he chased me out of the restaurant to do it. But he did have reason to believe that I didn’t intend to leave a small tip, since we had both thanked him for the excellent service.
You’re right; it’s a gratuity; get used to it; if a restaurant puts that “notice” on their menu and you order food you are legally bound to pay it. There’s another thread on this somewhere and a lawyer chimed in.
You people ought not go to Europe because it most restaurants it is done automatically, even if its a small party.
This thread has gone all over the place, but the bottom line is, fork over the 15% unless you are penalizing your server for a specific infraction, then don’t go back there anytime soon.
Having been a bartender and a waitress in my day, I can say this-- I hope your mom doesn’t go back to this restaurant. Servers have long memories when it comes to tips, and there is no incentive to give anything more than cursory service to a shitty tipper. When I tended bar, if it was busy, I would deliberately server the good tippers ahead of the lousy ones, even if the good tipper stepped up to the bar later. I know people who did worse to the food and beverages of bad tippers.
Seriously. Don’t frequent a place where you don’t tip. I always go up to or over 20% at a restaurant I go to often, as it’s an investment in future service… and clean food.
If I’m reading you correctly, Rubystreak, you’re saying that tips are basically insurance against having food befouled?
Seems to me to be in the same line as ‘this is a purely voluntary insurance payment you’re giving us…because it’d be *just terrible *if something bad happened to your food’.
Which sucks. Really, **really **sucks. :mad:
I think that the system that makes tips so central to the scheme of things that people would do that to bad tippers is in need of a pit thread all of its own.
And I hope that the people who would befoul food purely on the basis of money (not bad treatment by a customer) have karma come back and kick them in the arse so hard that their eyes pop.
It really depends on who you’re stiffing. Not everyone would stick their dick in your mashed potatoes, but there are people who would, and yes, I’ve known it to happen. Seriously, if you regularly piss off the people who is getting to spend quality alone time with your food in the future, common sense would dictate that you are taking a risk.
But you missed the part where I also said that, being a regular who tips well insures better future service from your waiter. I think that’s fairly self-evident. If the service is bad at a restaurant, you’re unlikely to become a regular; thus, the bad tipping would not be a issue, because you’d give the bad tip, leave, and never come back. Right?
I am talking about how to act if you are a regular. The food befouling is an extreme example of what might happen to regulars who don’t tip, but more likely to happen to a person who is rude and mean to a server. A more reasonable example is getting better, faster, more cordial service if you are a good tipper. I like going to my 3 favorite restaurants and knowing that I will get the best attention from my waiter because I am a good tipper and a polite customer. Why anyone would behave otherwise at a place they frequent is beyond me.
Oh, better to be angry that the sun isn’t shining on a cloudy day. It’s human nature and it happens in all areas of life. If someone treats you like crap who has power over you, you might find sneaky ways of getting back at them. Is it nice? No. Would I ever do it? No. But I also tip 20%, and say thank you after my meal, and wouldn’t go back to a place where I was moved to leave a crappy tip anyway, so I’m not worried about it either way.
Don’t hate the playa, hate the game. These people make shit wages, work their asses off and often get treated like dirt, while they rely on your tips for their livelihood. Screw with a man’s livelihood at your own peril.
And I hope the same for bad tippers, so I guess we’re even then.
Actually, if you re-read it, that’s exactly what I said in the bit you quoted. I think the system needs pitting.
I think that any job where customers have the right to hold money over someone’s head and effectively make them beg for it is completely arse-around. If you pay people a good wage, they’re less stressed. And if you back up your employees and don’t let other people treat them poorly, you get loyal staff who are content to work for you. The whole ‘ultra-minimum wage’ thing is an insult to anyone who has to work for a living.
So, I think the system sucks. I’m also prepared to accept that this is the way it is when I hit the States next year - and will tip very nicely, because I’m not an asshole. On the whole though I’m going to avoid eating out - not because of the tipping factor, but because sites like bitter waitress have shown that there are waitstaff who, upon merest utterance of an Australian/English accent, will presume you’re going to stiff them and act accordingly. Frankly, I’d rather just funnel my tourist dollars into groceries, if I can’t trust the food or the service.
Back on our little derailment topic, though, I still don’t think a ‘bad’ tip justifies fouling someone’s food unless they’ve been an asshole. Money isn’t sufficient justification on its own - how much do you think I could personally sue you (generic ‘you’) for if I found out you spat (or worse) in my food? :dubious: Certainly a lot more than a couple of bucks.
Yeah, I guess it does. Nearly all people who work for tips make well over the minimum for it, but it’s a hard job. I once cried when I got stiffed by a 10-top on a lunch shift because basically, I had no other tables in my section that afternoon and I made no money that day. It sucked and I still remember how it felt-- I did NOT give them bad service. I think they just forgot because you could not leave money on the table at that restaurant, you had to pay at the register, and it was an oversight, but still, it was awful. I’d never do that to someone unless they really fucked up.
That’s the really evil thing about it-- you will never, ever know someone has befouled your food. Ever seen Fight Club? That stuff happens and I’ve never heard of anyone being busted for it. Would you really notice a boogerin your club sandwich? Some jism in your cream of mushroom soup? Someone put their dick in your mashed potatoes? Nope. Better to just tip and be polite. It’s good karma AND good sense.
I recall in another thread someone commenting that they tipped primarily based on time (but with room to boost or cut the tip if the overall level of service warranted it). I think the guy was assuming something like $7 an hour; so if he was at the reastaurant for 30 minutes, he left a $3.50 tip (or at least used that as a starting point). The rational was that carrying over a $8 burger is no more or less strenuous than carrying over a $25 steak, so basing the tip on the amount of work done was more logical than the price of the meal.
Forgive us old folk. Many years ago a ten percent tip was normal. Then slitherered up to 12. !5 and now 20. The service hasn’t gotten better. Who decrees what a proper tip is any way. If you flat out give 20 you are eliminating a chance to financially critique service. A customer who goes into a restaurant that is understaffed and winds up with a lousy experience can bitch ,but he can’t wakk up to the management and say it was only worth this much today. I have had a lousy time in a good restaurant due to poor staffing. Maybe a bunch called in sick. Why is that my problem. I go to nice place and spend a lot ,i have expectations.Do I just leave quietly with my tail twixt my legs.
gonzo: You allude to a very good question, IMHO. If the menu already has posted on it “xx% gratuity included” and the service just flat out rots, what’s the legality of walking up to the management and demanding that the bill be recalculated to include a lower gratuity?
A group of coworkers and I used to go out to lunch once a month - there were about 15 of us when the whole group went - so the autograt applied most of the time. There were a few times when the service did not warrant it, and all we did was talk to the manager and the bill was refigured.
A father of a friend will always have the 18% (or whatever) removed from the bill so that he can tip what he wishes (usually 15%). They always do. He’s a pretty powerful person in this state, so YMMV a great deal.
I’d give you a great tip to see that! 