I have a hard time saying nu-cle-ar. Something about going from the k to the l sound. It’s like my vocal cords can’t make that transition. If I say it slowly, I can do it. But I can’t do it at normal speed. However, I can say nukuler just fine.
“Cellular” is sort of the same. If I say it at normal speed, it comes out cell-lu-lar.
I don’t have trouble saying any words other than those. I’m not sure why they give me problems. But I really appreciate it when someone mocks me for saying them the wrong way.
It’s pretty hard to establish proof of intent to pronounce something one way or another. **Dr. Deth ** is making a deduction that many in this thread have already made in light of W’s upbringing, education, etc. I guess you could do as the author of LHOD’s cited article suggests and track Bush’s pronunciation of the word in other contexts and at other times in his life to verfiy the suspicion that he’s playing it up ‘folksy.’ If you’re so inclined to track it, have at it, but I am comfortable with my assumption that he is – it’s not that I’m lazy. It’s just that I don’t care.
I would think that code switching and register would be indicatvie of just the intent necessary to make the deduction that he’s doing it on purpose valid. What am I missing?
sorry to report, but the very concept of register requires that someone do something on purpose. By purposefully chosing register, one purposefully pronounces a word one way or another.
Well, maybe my wording was a bit strong- rather let’s say- he could have been trained out of that usage (question- did he really pronounce it that way while at the Univ?) if he so chose. He did not so choose (clearly), and I am pretty sure it was discussed.
I have read this thread thoroughly, and have been educated as to the variety of pronounciation, and that “nuke-u-lar” is an acceptable version for many people. OK, I see that as fair.
But, Fer Chrissake, it’s not just that President Bush is a Yale educated man, but that he is the son of a President as well, with all avenues open and , hopefully examples set to decent oratory education. Popular vernacular, my spectacular muscular nukeyoular ass…
elelle, so you missed the point or you are just whooshing? Some well-educated people still knowingly choose to pronounce the word the way President Bush says it.
I have no idea why Bush says it the way he does. I am more inclined to suspect that it comes from the time he has spent in Texas. Since he has a natural problem with language skills, I don’t think that anyone would actually advise him to use a pronunciation that is often associated, ignorantly, with the less educated.
The concept of register does not mean someone’s intentionally choosing one particular way of speaking over another. It merely means that he’s doing what he feels is natural for the situation, for the climate so to speak. IIRC, register/code-switching is pretty much subconcious.
I do that. My husband can tell when I’m talking on the phone with a childhood friend from my early years in West Tennessee even though we live only a few blocks from each other now and have lived in Middle Tennessee for forty years. There is just a slight shift when just the two of us are going at it.
Also, when I get excited about something or if I’m awakened in the middle of the night, I sometimes shift back into the dialect of my childhood.
I’m fascinated by this. Others beside yourself have made similar statements. Can you elaborate? For instance, you say you cannot pronounce nuclear as
nu-cle-ar unless you do it slowly or deliberately. For me, I hear it more as 2 syllables; “new-clear”, rather than 3 syllables; “new-clee-ur”, as in I bought a new clear window. The distinction is subtle. Would you have difficulty saying “new-clear” at your normal rate of speech?
Hmmm… I can say new-clear just fine. I guess it’s just new-klee-ur that gives me trouble.
As I’m sitting here playing with the sounds, it seems that the “klee” sound is made very high in my mouth–almost at the roof. But the “ur” sound is made at the bottom. More in my throat than in my mouth. Maybe it’s that transition between making a sound in the top of my mouth to the sound in my throat that gives me problems.
When I say the “clear” part of new-clear, the sound seems like it comes just from my mouth. I don’t have to make the throaty “ur” sound and that’s probably why I don’t have trouble with it.
bull poop. at some level there is a conscious decision. maybe the decision is made so many times that it becomes s.o.p., done on auto-pilot, but to suggest that there is no cognition of the different register is pure bull poop.
how you say that an understanding of the historical W cannot lead to the conclusion that he’s chosen to say “nukyular” and point to register when the very nature of switching register has to invovle some level of thought and thus choice – these are no involuntary reflexes - is beyond me.
That first period should have been a colon, shouldn’t it? As in, “Wanna see some bull poop? Here goes:” What on earth do you offer as evidence that this is true; what’s your expertise that leads you to this conclusion?
How is there a conscious decision if one doesn’t know they’re pronouncing it differently? I didn’t know I was pronouncing it differently until my husband pointed it out to me shortly after we met.
As for which pronunciation I use now, I periodically still say nukular by accident because its what I’ve always used, but I try to remember to say “new-clee-'r” to avoid being harrassed by my husband.
Because we’re not talking about you, we’re talking about George W. Bush and his decision (yes decision) to employ folksy rhetoric and pronunciation. With all due respect, I don’t care how you talk or who you talk to, and your little anecdote does nothing to convince me that Bush doesn’t affect his speech when he deems so fit.
Monty LHOD , knock me with your little jabs all you want. I’ve kept it clean till challenged in this thread and agreed with your underlying assertion (that, when it comes to pronunciation, there really can never be a correct and an incorrect, giving the tendency for such things to evolve, mutate, bastardize, whatever), but now we’re talking about human nature, discerning motives, taking a totality of the circumstances in any given situation and arriving at a conclusion. I have taken what I know about Bush as young man, businessman, and politician and what I know about those who he has surrounded himself with in his political life and arrived at the conclusion, reached by many others, that he does the opposite of putting on airs – he puts on this down home act – and part of that act involves the pronunciation of the word we’ve been discussing. For you to dismiss my conclusion based solely on your knowledge of LINGUISTICS wreaks of the ivory tower know-it-all-ness that gives smart folks a bad name. Dammit, I can arrive at a conclusion about someone’s motive for speaking a certain way without an advanced degree in linguistics (God forbid you guys stop studying that stuff, I’m sure commerce would screech to a halt). Just because something CAN be explained one way does not mean that is the explanation. For you to smugly and assertively say that your discussion of linguistics has foreclosed any debate (and the room for any opinion) on W’s motivation for talking like a rube is pure hubris.
Yeah I think there were some typoe in yours too. Removing the letters in brackets, it should read
[That f] I [rst period should have been] A [colon, shouldn’t it? As in, "Wanna see so] M [e bull poop? Here goes: "What on e] A [rth] DO [yo] U [offer as eviden] C [e t] **H ** [at this is tru] E [; what’s your expertise that leads you to this conclusion]
To the extent your post requires a serious reply, see above.