Agreed. Not everything is a goddamn market pitch.
We’ve been doing that for 10 years and all it got us was Trump 2.0, complete with armed forces occupying our own cities. If someone is a Trump supporter, they’re supporting him despite these things you mentioned, not because they’re unaware of them. Maybe they like his policies, maybe they don’t care because they don’t affect them, maybe, and probably quite often, it’s not that they’re voting for Trump, it’s that they’re voting against Hillary/Biden/Harris. In a two party system, you can vote for someone because you like them or you can vote for them because you dislike the other person.
One of the few things I think might actually be able to get through to them is Trump’s attack on the second amendment. I’m sure as soon as Fox figures out how to spin that so the right sees it as in line with the values they’ve held all along, we’ll be seeing montages of politicians and Fox hosts defending 2A in one clip and renouncing it in another. Calling Clinton and Obama gun grabbers while showing Trump/Fox coming right out and saying it’s now illegal to carry a gun. Hopefully these find their way to Trump supporters.
To be clear, I’m not advocating for more guns, but I feel like this is something that we can use to light a fire under their collective asses and maybe begin to see that it’s their side, the people they elected, that are trying to restrict their rights, not the left. I mean, they don’t see it with restrictions to abortion or restrictions to marriage (or really any kind of) equality, or a million other things, but this might actually hit home. If I had to guess, I’d guess there’s a whole lot more republicans that don’t want their guns getting grabbed than there are republicans that are affected by losing same-sex marriage or the ability to get an abortion.
I’m still surprised at how many on the right were angry that the Epstein files didn’t get released. Maybe Trump intending to take people’s guns away, or actually doing it, will keep them worked up.
I’ll put you down as a “Nemo, all of us who oppose Donald Trump must unite against him. Unless they disagree with anything I have said, in which case fuck them.”
Perhaps you could address this to crowmanyclouds, who has assured me that there aren’t any posters in this thread who have said that Trump is committing genocide.
…it was a two-part question.
The first was do you read them? And the second was are you “going to argue against a strawman version of what they said?”
I clearly underestimated you because this:
Shows you’ve gone with the third option: the non sequitur.
And this is an example of you being a disingenuous arsehole.
This appears to be APackof19menthols first post in this thread. They posted AFTER the last time crowmanyclouds last posted here. You can’t expect crowmanyclouds to post about things that hadn’t happened yet.
And its an exemplar of exactly why you lose. You show zero empathy at all. The lived experiences of trans people in your own country don’t matter to you. You are happy to throw them under the bus to make a rhetorical point.
Again, you’re just blatantly disrespectful. Rude dismissive, refusal to read, and acting like you’re trying to be so badass.
I asked questions, so answer them if you’re so damn confident in your blatant disrespect of my people. Don’t dance around it because you’re uncomfortable. Don’t use me to prove your point to someone else. ANSWER.
- Do you deny that America is committing genocide?
- Do you trust Trump not to escalate what is recognized by scholars to be early stages of genocide?
- Do you truly believe trump can deny that he is committing a genocide?
- When, if you do deny the active genocide of MULTIPLE groups of people, does it BECOME genocide?
I am not your point. I am a person, so talk to me like one and acknowledge my points, even if they make you uncomfortable. Don’t talk down to me as if i’m just another tool to prove your point, just like how the dead trans people, dead black and indigenous people, are just tools to prove points for people like you. Don’t make me a tool for your point, or try to one-liner me, or shut me down because I won’t be quiet until you answer to your denial. Say it with your chest, full and clear, that you really don’t think America has spent hundreds of years killing these people.
If you read the beginning of the thread, you’ll see that he has said this.
The Holocaust couldn’t have happened without deniers and people who turned blind eyes. Unlike frogs who will jump out of a pot before it boils, certain humans will smugly proclaim how clever they are until it’s to late.
I’m sorry how this country has treated you Apackof19menthols, and how you are again being virtually dehumanized in this thread. This whole fucking argument about who is doing things the, “right way” is so aggravating and pointless. Getting the malignancy out of the Whitehouse and trying to get on with, ‘Forming a more perfect union” is more important than point scoring or whatever Nemo is playing at.
And therein lies the problem. Inasmuch as the arguments are being repeated, it’s because you haven’t actually addressed the originals. Your summaries of said arguments are inaccurate, written to be dismissive rather than take their points seriously.
Your general tactic seems to be to take what people have said and remove all the nuance, to the point of creating a strawman. Then you knock down this strawman and ridicule them for making it.
Of course if you remove all the nuance, all of the parts that make the new argument different, you get back to the same strawman you originally knocked down. That should be a red flag that you’ve removed too much.
Your style is just so reminiscent of the right wingers who dismiss any concerns by the rest as SJW virtue signaling DEA woke nonsense. Your cries of hysteria aren’t that different from their use of Trump Derangement Syndrome. And then throw in a bit of Sealioning that you’re the one being reasonable.
Well, right now I’m working on getting you and your fellow travellers to stop being lying hypocrites and start acknowledging reality. I am aware that you keep accusing others of the same thing, but that’s because you’re a lying hypocrite.
There are plenty of things that can be done and indeed are being done, many of which have already been mentioned in this thread. But you keep ignoring them and trotting out the same “All you have is despair and hopelessness” strawman. Because you’re a lying hypocrite.
If all you’re doing is those things despite all the evidence that they won’t accomplish anything, and telling people that they will, then you’re delusional and you are actively discouraging others from resisting.
Stop sabotaging the movement, you hypocrite.
Anyway, speaking of genocides that aren’t happening…
I’m sure the “medical waste incinerators” are nothing to worry about, even though apparently the government can’t afford even basic medical care for the detention facilities it already has.
I seem to recall you being dismissive of concerns about Trump more than a decade ago. I see nothing has changed.
You get a “Nemo, I am posting something that is factually wrong. Pointing that out and posting the facts will be taken as a personal attack against me.”
But a nice attempt. Basing it one something you “recall” from more than a decade ago is a nice touch.
So what you’re saying is that you’ve got about a half dozen strawmen now ready to trot out for all occasions.
But a nice attempt.
The Holocaust couldn’t have happened if the German people had stood up for the law in and removed Hitler from power in 1933. There wouldn’t have been a Holocaust or a world war.
The people who tried to do the right thing in 1933 weren’t the ones yelling about all of the things Hitler they thought was going to do. The people who tried to do the right thing in 1933 were the ones saying that Hitler had broken the law and should be removed from power.
Yawn.
And how did that turn out for those German people who tried to do the right thing in 1933?
Some of them were arrested and some of them were killed. What’s your point? That they should have stayed home in safety and not tried to stop Hitler?
Would you have given the same advice to Renee Good and Alex Pretti?
…they would both hate you.
My point is, it’s hilarious that you’re bringing up Germans being concerned about where Nazism is heading in 1933 Germany while at the same time mocking people who dare to mention their, well founded, fears of genocide and world war in 2026 America.
Nothing, really really significant, might happen (and we’ll look stupid having stopped MAGA) but if things go where they’re clearly headed well, you’re going to be the laughing stock of the Trump™ casino and death camp.
Nonsense.
Good and Pretti weren’t protesting against genocide or slavery or nuclear war.
They were protesting against illegal arrests by ICE.
They were focused on Trump’s real crimes, which is what I’ve been saying throughout this thread.