Where do people like ZPG Zealot and Naive Evian get the idea that love and discipline are mutually exclusive?
About 3/4 of the way through page 1, I decided that I would share a pleasant/amusing anecdote from the weekend.
But whoooo, this thread got ugly.
What the hell, here you are:
I was at a ‘punkin patch’ with the little guy, and saw a sign that said “Children found unattended will be given kittens to take home.”
“Unattended Children will be given a shot of espresso, and a puppy”
From being around modern parents and their kids?
And the notion of unconditional love is less than a decade old, is it? :rolleyes:
I don’t consider love and discipline to be mutually exclusive, only that between the two, discipline is more important. Also, far too many people seem to think that any degree of constraining or correcting a child is evidence of lack of love.
You were right earlier - you are just naturally an asshole. Also, a troll.
From the hundreds of thousands of parents and child raising “experts” that claim one cannot discipline a child with love. That one must be one’s child’s best friend and not their parent. Etc. The proof that such ideas don’t work is in all of the kids (and adults!) around us now who have no self control, no boundaries and no idea that other people count. Cheesesteak appears to be on her way to raising one.
I’m a man. That doesn’t mean I can’t want to have your babies, and raise them to be self loathing sociopaths.
Cite that there are “hundreds of thousands…of child-raising ‘experts’” that claim this? What little I’ve personally seen on the subject is exactly the opposite.
Let’s look at this quote. “I wasn’t going to mention this post, but someone else brought it up and quite frankly that idea that children desire unconditional love sounds like the beginning of civilization’s downfall. You are not raising a child when you give him or her unconditional love. you are creating a sociopath. No wonder the world seems to be filled with bratty children. Children need discipline. They are born one giant, screaming Id with no consideration or idea that other peope even exist. Raising a child means teaching them about civilized behavior, reciprocity, trying to help them develop empathy, etc., not giving them unconditional love.”
Do you see anything in there that says loving a child is incompatible with disciplining the child? Perhaps, if you think the only kind of love that exists is unconditional love (a condition far too belief with those who raise little monsters rather than functioning adults).
And let’s not forget to add teaching them to scam people out of money through “fortune telling” to that list of important traits!
It is certainly not a scam to bill someone for the time spent researching and formulating an opinion. The true scam artists would be anyone expecting a total stranger to do that for free.
“Raising a child means teaching them about civilized behavior, reciprocity, trying to help them develop empathy, etc., not giving them unconditional love.”
My emphasis.
Wow, way to deflect the point from what you actually said:
“Love isn’t really important to raising a responsible human being. Self-discipline is.”
Well, it sounds like you are already working on that with the one you have. Sorry I touched a nerve there, but do note that I am not the only one here to point out that you are not doing well at teaching your child to interact politely with others.
That was bad phrasing on my part - it’s hundreds of thousands of parents, and those child raising “experts” who push being your child’s friend, etc.
Which is my point exactly. Love isn’t necessary for raising a child. It can happen. Some would argue that it is even a good thing when it does. Some good child raisers often cite love as a reason they discipline their children. But love is not ultimately necessary like discipline and education.
Fair enough, but who are these “experts”?
Let me guess, you think unconditional love is the only kind there is?
ZPG, since you apparently need it spelled out for you: loving your child unconditionally is not a problem UNELSS you believe that you cannot love your child and discipline your child at the same time.
That is why I counted you among those who “seem to think that any degree of constraining or correcting a child is evidence of lack of love.”