There are some wrong assumptions I should address:
-“The OP can speak for himself, but when you remove the references ‘profit incentives’ and Einstein, what you have left is a rant against the worship of ‘celebrity culture’. This fan(atic) phenomenon is something I’m certain most people would agree is excessive in today’s society.”
I like where you’re going w/ that, and that’s true, but that’s not what I meant by the OP. I just used QT as the beginning of my rant, and as a perfect example.
- Zoe: "It can be a bitter lesson to learn that greatness is not a good indicator of perfection. It can also be very freeing.
I loved Pulp Fiction, but fount QT’s commentary on the film on the DVD to be insufferable.
andrewdt85, creative genius is not very likely to flow from a life lived in near perfection. Even those on the list of Nobel Prize winners have feet of clay. Can’t you see something hopeful in that?"
Yes! In one of my first posts ^^^, I specifically stated just that:
***But all of this, I need to point out, is a positive thing- that’s what it is for me- b/c it’s all about realizing your potential in the world and being realistic about the world. That’s what this is about, not about, as I think you’re implying above, being moody and hating the world, not at all, but at just having a vehemence for those who limit themselves by putting these people on a pedestal. That’s what it’s all about. ** *
I think what most of you are feeling and seeing me as is this young punk kid who hates the adults of the world for keeping him down and the system and ‘the man’! And is sitting in front of his PC right now wearing goth clothes w/ a Manson poster on the wall smoking a cig wanting to fight the oppressor…
No NO NO. I consider myself to be an adult, eager to learn from adults around me all the things I need to learn. I start this thread not to tear people down, but to tear down the bullshit that goes with people worshipping other people or idolizing them (not just pop stars, though that’s even worse, I agree w/ you JohnBckWLD) and pretending like they are something more than flawed and something incredible, even though many accomplished something great. I just hate the bs of worshipping people these people instead of seeing their flaws; you’re on the right track Monstro, when you say
-"Do you find it easier to insult someone than to praise them? You should find calling someone “asshole” or “dumbass” just as hard as calling them “great”, if we’re all equal in our failings and flaws. But I get a feeling these names roll off your tongue with much ease.
What do you think?"
but that needs clarification- what I seek in myself is this: AN ABSOLUTE BALANCE WHEN LOOKING AT ANYONE, in that I never UNDERESTIMATE or OVERESTIMATE anyone and I value their achievements (for anyone, I recognize their achievements, no matter how great or small, even if they are miniscule), and evaluate critically their flaws.
For each and every single one of those men on the Nobel lists, or Quentin Tarantino, or any person I meet, or any of you even, I would always value and recognize your achievements while also recognizing your flaws and never believing BS about you being ‘great’ or worthy of worsip status. But the problem is (and the reason I started this OP was) people who line up to meet the Pope (who is just a fucking man w/ flaws and no idea where he’s going when he dies :D) and Tarantino (‘prophet?’- the man’s a geek (in a bad way- I wear it as a badge of honor but he is not likeable as a man), egotistical, etc.), and is not handing us a message from ‘God’ for FUCK’S SAKE!! :mad: and even Mother Teresa (she went around helping people- instead of sitting around and calling her ‘Saint’ and pretending like she was some fucking angel from heaven how about just recognizing that she was an incredible woman and not worshipping the ground she walked on and go do what she did for fuck’s sake?)
See where I’m going with this? ‘Great’ people from the past and present are just ideals for us to live up to, and they themselves are not ‘Saints’ or ‘Gods’ or ‘greats’ or ‘propets’ or that shit, they are fucking fallible human beings like you and me and it’s time to stop worshipping them and go do what they do and not make such a big deal about these folks.
Here’s where I got the idea for ‘no great men’, or at least one copy of what many received in email and such, and while I’m not saying it’s eternal truth or anything infallible (and I know I’m going to get criticized heavily for it) I find it inspirational - http://www.saraswatiyoga.com/PeterFox/sheldon_kopp.htm
If you read this whole thing, thanks.