First of all, allow me to say, yes, I will officially now come across as an American Asshole. That’s why this is in the pit. You don’t like it - tough.
The Belgians and French that work in my company are such arrogant tools that there are days I want to fly over there and . . . and. . . I don’t know what I would do, but I am sure it would hurt.
There isn’t a single employee I have talked to at the Dept Mgr level or lower that doesn’t agree with me, and the 1 exec I talked with agrees too.
They are always right, we are always wrong. Even when it comes to cultural and legal conventions of the US, we are wrong, they are right. Even when we get a response from our local attorney “you want to phrase it how?”, we just say, “yep, do it that way, its what they (Belgians) want.” This is Mergers and Acquisitions, and some of their stuff is so foreign to business transactions in the US, that there isn’t a single banker I have worked with that hasn’t asked “WTF?” on at least one occasion.
I know - its not all Belgians and French people. But what the hell, am I supposed to believe that this particular company specifically looked for a bunch of arrogant pricks and those are the only ones they hired?
I will probably need to quit before I snap and do something stupid, but this isn’t a very good time for doing that.
too true. but I guess I am so used to the arrogance on display here in the states that I don’t even really think about it. they just come across like such condescending pricks that I am literally speechless sometimes.
There also may be a bit of lost in translation about this. When I worked in Amsterdam a few years back I worked with people from all over Europe in an office enviroment. The people all spoke english but a lot had very bad phrasing and sounded flat, snarky etc. when they didn’t mean to.
That said you’re the one dealing with this shower so you’re in a better position then I to tell. There could very well be a toxic enviroment in their office which makes everyone a prick. I’ve seen it happen before.
go ahead keep it up yojimbo, now I am getting all rational and reasonable about it and am no longer fuming and foaming at the mouth.
Oh well, I guess I probably should have stuck it in the Mini-rants thread cause I don’t really have much to say. I just hadn’t been paying enough attention to the other threads I could already have used.
I don’t know about Belgium, but France I might believe. Compared to the US, France has a very socially stratified business culture. Your place in the world usually comes directly from what school you attended. Upper management can be very snobbish and may well think that dealing with you “filthy Americans” is beneath them, particularly if they’ve never actually visited the U.S. (which it sounds like they haven’t).
oh they have been to the US, some of them even have MBAs from US schools.
Some of the things that drive all of us apeshit are when we specifically write in an email “Here is the current situation and X is the next step”. without fail their response will be along the lines of “have you considered X?” or “we need to get X information”, or “we can’t make a decision until you do X”, etc. And it is not a matter of the messages missing each other in the ether. I am talking a message I send a 4pm us central time, and a message I receive back from them at 8am us central the next freaking day. We don’t respond to those messages because the only proper response is “no shit sherlock” and that’s not really business appropriate.
Its not specific language, its in the concepts and the phrasing. For instance: Net Debt certainly was not a concept covered in my MBA finance program. But I get it, Cash less Debt = Net Debt. Ok fine, no big deal, we can explain that. But then how the hell do you include accruals in net debt? Its not a debt - it belongs in Net Working capital, and would be there by any American calculation. Now, take these goofy European calculations and try to explain them properly in a US legal document.
They literally correct a sentence in a legal document, that doesn’t change the legality or the concept, but it just “sounds odd” coming from this culture.
Its kind of like hiring an American to do business in Japan. Do you insist that they follow American culture or Japanese culture. Japanese of course, you follow the culture of the country you are doing business in.\
Oh and company based in Belgium, so when the CEO says “say it this way”, you try and make your case (carefully), but in the end what else can you do? (other than leave, which I likely will.)
I heard that from my ex-father-in-law, who was a British civil servant sent to hash out Airbus agreements in Paris, between the French, German, and Spanish governments.
When he dies, I think they are going to make him a saint.
No, probably most are not. However, a certain kind of very aggressive, “king-of-the-world” personality gets attracted to the MBA degree. Probably because it’s likely the single fastest way to wealth in this country; nothing is as likely to start you off as close to the boardroom as an MBA. Many execs start their careers as MBA’s, since it means you’re at least not a total dimwit (whereas a BA from most institutions may as well be scratch paper these days), while getting a PhD is more academically-oriented and not really vital for business.
So basically, if you’re smart but arrogant and ambitious, it’s a good start in life. And, unfortunately, such people often show good results when they get started in business, at least in the short term. But then the problems tend to build over time. They get more arrogant and more high-handed, and tend to jump jobs to leave the accumulated morale and social problems they started behind them. It also helps them escape the accumulating numbers of people who don’t want to deal with them. Eventually, of course, they hit a limit and nobody likes them anymore, after which their careers hit a brick wall.
Oh, I know about this kind of issue. I work for a multinational company with headquarters in Europe, and engineering offices in California (where i am), Germany, Belgium, and Poland. Even though everyone I deal with speaks English, sometimes the cultural/language issues can be difficult.
well on the plus side - its not just my company. I knew it wasn’t just me when I talked to other people in the company, but for a while I just wondered if part of the hiring criteria was if the person was a prick! The HR office here goes practically overboard with personality profiles and “meaningful” crap like that to make sure they hire people who fit the culture.
Wow - I just realized that if I fit the culture, and the culture (over there) is made up of pricks, then I must be one too. what a drag.
I am assuming that due to political/social stereotypes, many people over there have decided that we just suck. Must admit that last fall’s financial debacle did not help the US reputation one iota!
