Maybe, but there are plenty of tools that don’t have MBAs either, but I see your point. It certainly magnifies the visibility of their tool-ness because it does make it easier to hit the higher profile positions.
I think the proper analogy would be:
This is a convent.
Am I supposed to believe this particular convent specificlaly looked for a bunch of spiritual people devoted to a lifetime in the service of god and those were the only ones they hired?
Okaaay…well most of this is incorrect.
MBAs do not graduate “close to the boardroom”. They graduate and typically become Associates in investment banks, management consulting firms, hedge funds, private equity or venture capital firms or possibly as Managers or Directors in “industry” companies, depending on their experience before they went to B-school. Many start their own businesses. If MBAs seem arrogant or “douchey” it is because, similar to a JD, it is a “no bullshit” degree. IOW, MBAs tend to be a self-selecting group of ambitious people who are there to learn to make money, not fuck around.
More often than not, the value of an MBA is realized about 5-10 years after you graduate. You don’t get hired as the CEO, but the experience you gain in business school may help you get there faster.
Maybe I just need a new career. So far, they are douches because they are Belgians/French, they are douches because they are MBA’s, and they’re douches because its M&A!
Truly, its not just M&A, that’s my department, IT and Accounting both have similar issues. (and suranyi mentioned it as well, so that makes it engineering too.
I guess its about as easy to answer as “why are americans all assholes”. Since we aren’t, and they probably aren’t all arrogant jerks, I’m just whining about my job, even though I should be grateful for having it.
Damn the SDMB for opening my eyes to rationality and understanding!
This. Plus very few MBAs “start” their careers with that MBA. Most top schools are hesitant to even look at you until you’ve got some good experience under your belt.
One thing that may be in play for the OP is that the home office can often be a bit douchy to other locations. Our non US affiliates frequently tell us we’re being too US-centric and treating them like second class associates. We do actually read their emails though, so that we do have that going for us!
You know this rant could be transformed into a GD discussion.
As I work in a firm that includes (in an probably long-term unworkable) North America, UK, and EU management triumvirate, I think I see what is going on. What’s interesting in this connection, relative to a GD, is the assumption a single business language means a single business culture / approach (an assumption I find among Americans quite frequently…).
Anyway, it strikes me from my business experience that the Continentals (i.e. non UK side) of your management people are (i) rather more used to worked in a English 2nd lang. enviro -i.e. German, Beglians, Dutch, French, etc managers- operating in English without native language sensibilities, (ii) largely used to a more hierarchal business culture which is typical… well in most the world ex USA … and so interact unconsciously based on that baseline culture (although certainly there are variations, the Dutch are rather more like UK in habits, Germans and French in my opinion despite their differences are rather more hierarchy based), etc.
The problems Americans face once they are managed by an outside management culture is that, unlike Euro zone corporations of any size, Americans don’t have much direct, operational, experience in dealing with different management cultures.
This is no contradicts what I said, and the fact that you quote me as saying they ""graduate “close to the boardroom” “” shows that you, at best, skimmed over what I posted, since I did not, in fact, say that at all. Rather, I said it was the closest start you could get. What you posted thereafter is a confirmation of what I said.
This tends to confirm, rather than deny, what I wrote.
I got a macro for that.
Its the first one I ever wrote. Like a copy ?
It’s just that they’re more stoic. Germans don’t do comedy. Germans do bier.
Ugh… ze Germans. I’m not sure where this idea of German efficiency came from, but I’ve certainly never seen any evidence of it. And don’t even get me started on Chinese factories using German hardware and American chemicals… the technical people spend all their time arguing through translators while the bigwigs try to subtly stab each other in the back.
I loved the Japanese pre-managers brought in to run our company after its recent (1988) acquisition. The first few months had them with their ties thrown over their shoulders and a “Mushi-mushi” halfway through the first ring of their phones. After a few months they’d gone native and knew that Miller Time did not only refer to the company’s name. By the end of their 6-month tours of duty they were completely useless back in the home islands. I like to think we precipitated the collapse of the Japanese economy in the late 80s.
Actually, if you want to say rude things about a specific european nationality without insulting europeans in general, taking potshots at the french is just about as safe as you can get.
That’s because it’s not there to make things easier or save money or time. It’s a cultural imperative - an end in itself.
You know, I have a professor from Germany who does exactly this. It drives me batty.
Probably just a coincidence that he’s from Europe too. I’m sure there are plenty of USA-icans who do the same thing.
Yes, Europeans are turds. Americans are far more whimsical. Let’s stereo type.
I’ve seen some very impressive German engineering, mostly in breweries and various paper mills. The mills I’ve seen built by Germans are very efficient, very little wasted energy are material. Most of the German engineers had very good hands-on knowledge too. Their technical documentation leaves a lot to be desired though.
You would quickly go broke betting on that.
I think the word you are looking for is stereotype.
I think the word you are looking for is stereotype.
I don’t know. Have you considered that it might be just a coincidence, and there’s plenty of USA-icans who do the same thing?
I absolutely agree with that, also with your bosses being a bunch of pricks.
Sadly, their attitude is extremely common. I’ve been trained on anti-discriminatory practices using anti-discrimination material written in reference to US “protected groups” (a concept which doesn’t exist in European countries) several times: Central was American and the notion of “you’re telling people to do things which are illegal where they live” just didn’t go through. I’ve also seen firing processes where clearly the criteria had been marked by the Americans, it made sense in an American business setting but not in a Spanish or Italian one. I’ve mediated arguments between Scots and Spaniards, where the biggest problem was that each part assumed that the laws of the other country were identical to those of his own (the two countries don’t even have the same kind of legal system).
Arrogance knows no borders, sadly. If it did, we could get rid of it by moving.